ESR Fault C5 2,2

mixc · Post by **mixc** » 17 Oct 2010, 13:41

Hi
Can anyone throw some light on this fault?
Its been into garage and had all the actuators checked, all working.
Then they checked for vacuum leaks still no joy.
You can rev it up to 4000rpm in low gears and the fault does not appear
Yet when you reach 50mph esr light comes on followed by anti pollution fault.
It seems speed related, but lexis shows up turbo over boost.
Any ideas.

Thanks Mixc

h2ocooler · Post by **h2ocooler** » 17 Oct 2010, 15:02

The anti pollution fault will cause the ASP/ESR warning due to limp mode, it may be the turbo actuator sticking or the electrovalve causing the overboost, also the vaccum system for the swirl valve actuator (or the swirl valve itself leaking)

Have you had the codes read with a Lexia or a generic reader?
Rob

edit:
My bad, just seen it was a Lexia.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 17 Oct 2010, 20:09

Go back and check the vac levels of the swirl valve / turbo control system which is not the same vac system that feeds the brakes servo EGR valve etc.
Turbo Overboost is caused either by lack of vacuum to control the turbo or a failed turbo actuator.

There are several l threads on this subject just search on swirl valves.

cachaciero

Post by **myglaren** » 17 Oct 2010, 22:45

cachaciero wrote:Go back and check the vac levels of the swirl valve / turbo control system which is not the same vac system that feeds the brakes servo EGR valve etc.

Funny that you should say that as just this afternoon I had a somewhat cursory glance at mine and spotted that the vacuum pipes going to the turbo-y bits had a branch off to the brake servo, which set me wondering.
May be different on the 2.2 as it has more clever bits to go wrong.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 17 Oct 2010, 23:23

This is one area where the 2.0 and 2.2 are very different, control of turbo pressure is different the 2.0 using a normal waste gate system the 2.2 using a variable geometry turbine nozzle.

On the 2.2 the vacuum for control of the swirl valves and turbo is fed from a separate vacuum accumulator or reservoir if you prefer which gets it's vacuum from the main system via a restrictor, this ensures that there is adequate vacuum to control the turbo even when heavy vacuum demands are being made by the brake servo.

However if there is a leak in the system vacuum cannot be made up quickly from the vac pump because of the restriction. It is for this reason that it is important on the 2.2 to check the vac for the swirl valve turbo separately from checking the main vac supply.

cachaciero

Post by **Paul-R** » 18 Oct 2010, 08:47

cachaciero wrote:This is one area where the 2.0 and 2.2 are very different, control of turbo pressure is different the 2.0 using a normal waste gate system the 2.2 using a variable geometry turbine nozzle.

Don't shoot me down in flames but I thought it was only the 2.0 90bhp version which is like this. I thought the 2.0 110bhp version was vacuum controlled in the same (but opposite manner) to the 2.2?

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 18 Oct 2010, 13:31

Paul-R wrote:
cachaciero wrote:This is one area where the 2.0 and 2.2 are very different, control of turbo pressure is different the 2.0 using a normal waste gate system the 2.2 using a variable geometry turbine nozzle.
Don't shoot me down in flames but I thought it was only the 2.0 90bhp version which is like this. I thought the 2.0 110bhp version was vacuum controlled in the same (but opposite manner) to the 2.2?

You may well be correct not having owned either of the 2.0ltr cars, I was just basing my explanation on the training manual I had to hand which could well have been the 90 BHP version it's not clear.

cachaciero

Post by **Paul-R** » 18 Oct 2010, 14:03

Well, there are certainly three electrovalves and a vacuum hose leading down to the turbo!

mixc · Post by **mixc** » 18 Oct 2010, 15:13

Hi guys
I can only assume that the faults were read on a lexia the Citroen logo came up on the screen?
The vacuum test was tested by a Citroen garage so l assume that they checked both systems.
The swirl valve was changed acouple of weeks ago.
The fap was also cleaned as well.
I hope that this narrows it down a bit.
Any ideas.

mixc

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 18 Oct 2010, 15:16

ONLY 2.2 16v units are varible Geomertry...

2.oi 8v 90 and 110bhp or "Ordinary" wastegate units..

I cannot speak for 2.oi 16v units though... due to power upgrade most likely these are varible geomerty...

Paul

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 18 Oct 2010, 19:16

citroenxm wrote:ONLY 2.2 16v units are varible Geomertry...

2.oi 8v 90 and 110bhp or "Ordinary" wastegate units..

I cannot speak for 2.oi 16v units though... due to power upgrade most likely these are varible geomerty...

Paul

The 2.0 16v HDI has a variable vane turbo, I think this is the same turbo as was fitted to the VAG 1.9 110bhp diesels. This is of course a completely different turbo to the one on the 2.2 HDI which is of a unique design not used elsewhere.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 18 Oct 2010, 19:41

Kowalski wrote:
citroenxm wrote: This is of course a completely different turbo to the one on the 2.2 HDI which is of a unique design not used elsewhere.

Why doesn't that surprise me!

cachaciero

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 18 Oct 2010, 19:55

mixc wrote:Hi guys
I can only assume that the faults were read on a lexia the Citroën logo came up on the screen?
The vacuum test was tested by a Citroën garage so l assume that they checked both systems.

I wouldn't !

The swirl valve was changed acouple of weeks ago.
The fap was also cleaned as well.
I hope that this narrows it down a bit.
Any ideas.

mixc

Well like I said Turbo Overboost only occurs because the Turbo is overboosting.
The Turbo will overboost if there is no or inadequate vacuum to the actuator on the Turbo should be about 200mB abs at idle 400Mb is not enough and indicates a leak.

The Turbo will overboost if the diaphragm actuator on the turbo is knackered or the vane assembly is seized.

The Turbo will overboost if the electro valve that applies the vacuum to the actuator is not working.

Take your pick!

Given that work has been done recently on the swirl valve system which shares the vac system with the turbo I would re-check the vacuum control side, I would also check that a vacuum applied directly to the turbo actuator actually moves it.

Just had another thought the turbo pressure sensor may be U/S don't know in which sense it would fail and have never heard of a failure but it is something to consider.

cachaciero

h2ocooler · Post by **h2ocooler** » 18 Oct 2010, 20:34

Would the figures not depend on the type of guage that is being used, on mine the reading (number) increases the higher (more) vacuum applied.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 18 Oct 2010, 21:17

h2ocooler wrote:Would the figures not depend on the type of guage that is being used, on mine the reading (number) increases the higher (more) vacuum applied.

Possibly my gauge reads absolute pressure i.e 0 is deep space and 1013 is average atmospheric pressure other gauges may well use weird numbering systems like 1013 mBars =0 with rising numbers + & -ve either side. Others may well start at 1013 mb calibrated as 0 and have increasing numbers for increasing vacuum where the numbers represent ... well they can represent almost anything inches of water, inches of mercury mbars below std pressure.

It is for this reason that I always quote pressure in mbars absolute people using other gauges will have to do the conversion.

cachaciero

French Car Forum

ESR Fault C5 2,2

ESR Fault C5 2,2

esr fault

Re: esr fault