Xantia HDI starter motor ?

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 24 Sep 2010, 12:38

The starter motor on my HDI has just decided it wants a rest !!
It has been on the way out for a few weeks now, but I had been getting away with clouting it with a hammer shaft, last night it said enough though and was trying to leave me stranded 40 miles from home !
So I removed it to try and coax some more life from it and eventually revived it enough to get me home but it's definitely lazier than it should be !
Yes, I know it's my fault, I should have investigated earlier but in mitigation I have been against the clock for the last 2 weeks.
Anyway, any recommendations for a good quality replacement ?
Citroen want over £300 +vat

I am seeing them from £55 to £120 as pattern replacements but it would be good to know the best of them.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 24 Sep 2010, 13:24

Check the voltage going to it, unless they changed it on Mk2s it's another one of those which could do with a relay being added.
I ended up replacing Cassy's starter because I thought it was on the way out when it was actually not getting enough juice (partly due to slipping aux belt not turning the alternator enough to charge the battery).

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 24 Sep 2010, 13:54

Thanks but I've isolated the fault to the starter motor as it was initially intermittent on test, probably the brushes but I didn't have time to check that far.
Alternator and voltage to starter are fine.

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 24 Sep 2010, 14:26

I was going to suggest the 'relay' assistance method too, lost count of how many 405's I did this too.

Back to the matter in hand, any new / recon starter you get will have a warranty with it, so I'd be tempted to get whatever you can, always best to avoid the cheapest out of a range though.

Obviously if you wanted to chance it, scrapyard for one.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 24 Sep 2010, 17:22

I got one from GSF, was a Bosch and is working well.

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 25 Sep 2010, 18:05

I might have known this job wouldn't be as straight forward as it should have been !!
Collected a new starter motor from a local motor factor this morning, was a different make to the Mitsubishi unit on the car but it looked almost identical.
Stripped the faulty unit off the car and checked to see if the pinions had the same number of teeth, no they didn't. Arrrgh !! One off the car had 12, new one had 13 !! Factors now closed, I'm in the workshop on my own and stuck ! When I started the car this morning it needed 10 mins of persuasion with a hammer shaft so I didn't want to refit the old one with that prospect until Monday.
So, motor in vice and off with the end cover to examine the brush gear.
Well, at least the reason for fault was obvious. The whole brush assembly was covered in oily carbon sludge and two of the brushes were almost worn out and sticky in the holders.
Washed off the whole brush holder assembly in solvent, blew out with compressed air and freed off the sticky brushes.
Cleaned the commutator and that end of the motor. Commutator is in excellent condition.
Reassembled and refitted to car.
Fingers firmly crossed !
Worked almost as good as new !

Dilemma now, do I just fit new brushes and holder and return the new motor ? Or do I fit a new motor anyway ?

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 23 Oct 2010, 06:15

I vote you fit new brushes - Woodauto probably sell them - my car is due for a starter and you can be the guinea pig!

dnsey · Unread post by **dnsey** » 23 Oct 2010, 08:20

Agreed! Why change the motor when you can fix the fault? As the commutator (and presumably bearings) are in good order, new brushes will result in a motor as good as an exchange recon one. You've a valid reason for returning the new one anyway, so that should be no problem.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 23 Oct 2010, 08:40

I had a look for my model of starter, and the refurb kit was like £6.40 plus carriage. Brushes, bushes front and rear plus a thrust ring.

uncle buck · Unread post by **uncle buck** » 23 Oct 2010, 08:56

Starter motors are very robust items, most of the time its the solenoid that causes the problem, replacing this & putting a drop of oil on the shaft that the pinion runs on normally always cures the problem of a lazy starter.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 23 Oct 2010, 09:11

I've only ever played with Bosch ones and the big (1950s/60s) Ford units.

Boschs get pitted solenoid contact plates and you used to fit a service kit with new solenoid endcap that fixed it. By the time main shaft bushes were badly worn, the pinion was probably stuffed also.

Sort of looking forward to cutting my teeth on a Valeo but it's the time lag on UK sourced bits or the cost/quality of local alternatives which really bites. When I did a Mitsu alternator, the diode pack which is £13.50 from Woods cost me almost $100 (say 60 quid) locally.

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 26 Oct 2010, 11:51

Update.

The repaired starter is still working but has become sluggish again, this will be the very worn of the 4 brushes.

The Factors accepted the incorrect motor back no prob but made a ridiculous comment !
When I told them the pinion had 13 instead of 12 teeth the guy said " that doesn't matter, it will work just the same !!!" So I asked how it would mesh due to the pinion having a larger diameter across the teeth ? He said " Well I'm just telling you what Bosch have told us !!!" Unbelievable !

Anyway, I'm still trying to find a new brush gear assembly, handyman is on the case as we speak. I've had no luck with local auto electrics places due to not having a motor ref number, the label has gone from mine !

I'm 100% sure new brush gear will return the motor to full speed !

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 26 Oct 2010, 11:57

That sounds like Australia - no interchange parts available, no clue at the service counter, staff who CBF.

I just ordered a pair of rebuild kits for mine (two solenoids, two brush kits) - it's a Valeo so they were on the shelf at Wood; £15 carriage to Oz on top. Web prices were a little out of date.

Did you try emailing them to ask, as they reckon they'll have a crack at obscure items?

HDI · Unread post by **HDI** » 26 Oct 2010, 12:26

Just phoned Wood Auto, very helpful guy !! Makes a pleasant change !

His findings seem to confirm my suspicion that the car has had an engine change in the past as there is no Mitsubishi motor listed against my cars id.
However, I drew his attention to a ref you gave me and he's given me a brush set reference so I can check dimensions. Means pulling the starter again but I'm well practiced at it now !

If this is the correct set it will only rush me £5.86 !!

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 26 Oct 2010, 12:36

HDI wrote:Means pulling the starter again but I'm well practiced at it now !

Haven't you fitted quarter turn fasteners yet?

They should come from factory on some bits of the Xantia (especially front seats and console

)!