Intermittent poor starting

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Penguin
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Intermittent poor starting

Post by Penguin »

Had my glow plugs changed a few weeks ago and the very next day the car wouldn't start for my wife. I strolled out and managed to start it first time, so, naturally I blamed my wife! Had been fine since until....

Saturday we all piled in the car ready for a quick trip out and again it wouldn't start. Eventually boiled a kettle and poured it over the plugs and associated fuel lines. Car started, probably coincidence but you never know. Yesterday we drove out to a forest park. Car started perfectly in the morning, but after standing for 5 hours I tried to start it for the journey home. It really didn't want to start. Just befiore the battery died the engine caught and I managed to keep it going. After a few seconds it ran fine. Obviously the problem is intermittent which doesn't help. My non-mechanical brain suspects that it might be the feed to the plugs. Does that sound likely? Secondly, if this is a possible fault would it be possible next time it plays up to connect a jump lead from the +ve battery terminal onto the plug feed bus bar for a few seconds and see if it will start then? Or is this a stupid idea?

I know I can rely on you guys for help on this so I will thank you in advance!

Cheers

Edit: forgot to mention that when it eventually started each time there were huge clouds of whitish smoke engulfing the general neighbourhood. I guess this is normal when it won't start as it is fine when it does start.
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Re: Intermittent poor starting

Post by JohnD »

Penguin wrote: but after standing for 5 hours I tried to start it for the journey home. It really didn't want to start. Just befiore the battery died the engine caught and I managed to keep it going.

.
During the summer and after only five hours, you shouldn't have needed the gloplugs so maybe your trouble isn't that. Before your next cold start, open the bonnet and give the primer bulb a few squeezes. It should feel fairly firm.
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Post by Penguin »

Hi John

Just a couple of things I need to add. On saturday when it wouldn't start I did try priming the bulb after each attempted start and it didn't seem to make any difference. Also, ever since I've had it, it did seem to require heaters even when warm, although not so much as when cold.
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Post by myglaren »

My son's 306 1.9 D-Turbo always needs the glowplugs.
My Xantia 1.9TD only needed them first thing each day.
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Post by Penguin »

myglaren wrote:My son's 306 1.9 D-Turbo always needs the glowplugs.
My Xantia 1.9TD only needed them first thing each day.
Yours is probably in better nick than mine!
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Post by myglaren »

Penguin wrote:
myglaren wrote:My son's 306 1.9 D-Turbo always needs the glowplugs.
My Xantia 1.9TD only needed them first thing each day.
Yours is probably in better nick than mine!
It was excellent (I take no credit, was like that when I bought it)
>140,000 miles and ran like a sewing machine, in concourse condition too.
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Post by Peter.N. »

Sounds like a dodgy fuel solonoid to me, if it doesn't have a keypad, dead easy to change.

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Post by Penguin »

Peter.N. wrote:Sounds like a dodgy fuel solonoid to me, if it doesn't have a keypad, dead easy to change.

Peter
Thanks for the input Peter. What makes you think that is the culprit? Also, would it respond to a tw@tting with a hammer?

Also, is there anything fundamentally flawed with my idea of using a jump lead from battery to glow plug bus bar? Would it damage me or the car? Just for elimination purposes you undertsand.
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Post by Old-Guy »

I have/had exactly the same problem, but patience and decent fuel are the twin answers. Probably I should change the injector tips.

Our 1.9TD always needs the glow-plugs, then starts very promptly. Hustle the lady to start and she will always refuse. On very cold mornings, she requires a bit of warning in the way of a dummy run - wait for the air-bag warning light to go out, switch off, wait 10 seconds, switch on, wait for the air-bag warning light to go out, then stir.

Clouds of 'white smoke' is a fine mist of unburnt diesel. You could try some injector cleaner (don't over-dose) and usually buying Shell or BP.
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Post by Penguin »

Thanks for the input Old-Guy but this is definitely an intermittent thing. Yes, she pretty much always needs heaters and I have no problem with that, but it is the fact that 3 times in the last month (and twice in the last 2 days) she just wouldn't start. In between those 2 times - no problem. Even when starting from cold sunday morning. The problem first appeared the day after my plugs were changed, which is why I am still suspicious of it being a plug issue - I just don't like coincidences. But if it is a plug thing then it is something that effects all of them as I have successfully started on 2 plugs and that gave me a completely different experience to this one.
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Post by myglaren »

What make are the plugs?

I have no direct experience but have heard of plugs other than Beru being unsatisfactory for a variety of reasons.
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Post by Xaccers »

Good point steve, I believe Xantias need glow plugs which can handle extended heating, fit the wrong ones and they get burnt out very quickly.
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Post by Penguin »

Don't know Steve, I didn't fit them. I had them done by an independent Citroen specialist.

Xac, if they burnt out then it wouldn't be an intermittent problem would it?
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Post by Xaccers »

Penguin wrote:Don't know Steve, I didn't fit them. I had them done by an independent Citroen specialist.

Xac, if they burnt out then it wouldn't be an intermittent problem would it?
It could be depending on how they've failed and how many have failed.
I started getting intemittent starting issues with Cassy not long after I got her and changed the leak off pipes (they get old and let in air causing starting problems) and glow plugs.
Using jump leads to test the plugs, they were sometimes glowing at the tip, sometimes at the shaft.
If you happen to still have the packaging or know the model of the plugs that can help exclude the likelihood of them being burnt out.
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Post by Penguin »

Like I say, Xac, I didn't change them or even see the packaging. So a bit of a dead end there.
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