Citroen fitted Aux belt tensioner assembly failed in 15,000

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 31 Jul 2010, 13:04

Hi, CITROEN XANTIA 1.9td 1989 mk2

I have after quite some time figuring out exactly what is making a rumbling noise at idle on my xantia realised that the auxillary belt tensioner assembly is excessivly worn. (not the pulley the piviot which the pulley arm piviots on).

this was supposedly replaced by a Citroen 15.000 miles ago.

they gave me a diagram to show me which part had been fitted but I seem to have misslaid this. I know it was a blown up diagram of the pulley arm assembly.

the part number is 575 130 and I have now identified it from this parts number. can some one please find a blown up diagram of the complete assembly including the shock absorber part number 575181.

1) should the self lubricated needle roller bearing inside this assembly have failed so soon?

2) do I stand any chance of citroen putting it right after so long?

thanks in advance Nigel.

Post by **CitroJim** » 31 Jul 2010, 21:48

15,000 miles does sound a short time for this Nigel. I wonder if it was a genuine one or a pattern part?

It works hard and if of inferior quality or if incorrectly fitted then that's what might have occurred.

It's worth checking the spring part is good too as if that's worn it can cause the tensioner to move around excessively, thus shortening its life.

This is the diagram I belive. Items 3 and 5...

I cannot at this time verify part numbers...

Post by **RichardW** » 31 Jul 2010, 22:51

CitroJim wrote:I cannot at this time verify part numbers...

I can

Item 3: 5751 30
Item 5: 5751 81

Which matches the numbers Nigel quoted above

Post by **admiral51** » 01 Aug 2010, 01:07

Hi Nigel

If when the tensioner etc was replaced and Item 5: 5751 81 was not done it could well have pushed the tensioner pulley out of true and very quickly knackered the bearing.
This i know from first hand experience

Have a look at these pics to see the damage caused

Colin

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 01 Aug 2010, 13:15

thanks Jim, Richard & Colin,

The diagram above is different to my xantia the top of the spring bolts directly to my hydraulic pump and the big bracket No 2 is missing on my car.

at least somebody recognised it, this set up seems to differ from my original setup which was a fixed bracket before the car went into citroen for tensioner pulley replacement.

they did install the spring at the same time but it looks like they removed the fixed bracket
this setup does differ to earlier xantias where the shock absorbsion is taken up by the tensioner itself in conjunction with the top of the spring being bolted to a rigid bracket. it seems that they fitted something from a later model. my setup has the top of the spring bolted to the hydraulic pump which is mobile the hydraulic pump moves with the pulley assembly tensioned by the spring bolted to the hydraulic pump, I think this must put more strain on the bearing that pases through the engine block.

they said they couldnt find parts, the orriginal quote was less than £200 this escelated to £400 over four days with several phone calls from citroen saying they couldnt source the parts.

why I question this wearing so soon is that I have read elsewhwere that these pulley mounts tend to last a very long time apparently the needle rollers wear on ingress of water and loss of lubrication due to engine heat over 100,000 miles or more, I think citroen installed the spring shock absorber and undid the pulley centre star bolt replaced the pulley and charged me for the whole assembly but prooving that is something else.

when I get around to having the job done by pleiades as it as something that is a little beyond me
I shall ask martin to keep the old parts so I can remove the shaft from the roller bearing and inspect it and its rollers for damage. I shall then make my point to citroen in Slough.

regards Nigel.

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Aug 2010, 18:55

From your description Nigel, yours was wrongly assembled and possibly bodged at an earlier date. The spring should be firmly attached to the pump cradle and not the pump it self. That diagram is right for your car and if yours does not follow it, your car is wrong.

I've seen the spring replaced by a length of solid metal bar before now

Get whoever does the job again to assemble it properly. Likely some original bits are now missing and a visit to a breakers may be needed to get the necessary.

As yours is a MK2, it will have the same arrangement as the 2.1TD. Early models of the 1.9TD had a different arrangement and the two are not interchangeable easily so don't go comparing with your dad's car! I hope someone in the past has not tried to make up some kind of hybrid in an attempt to bodge it.

At least you know why it's all a bit short-lived now and that I guess is good. Rebuild it properly and your troubles should be at an end.

dieseldoggy · Post by **dieseldoggy** » 02 Aug 2010, 02:52

hi all just done my one and the grease? well lack of it was quite obvious i think a gnat few over it? gave it a good greasing up worked it all in and on ends to stop water getting in.but what a poxy job trying to get sleeve out from casting.long crow bar and my friend the long handled lump hammer sorted it though with a whack from below and above.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 02 Aug 2010, 10:01

Jim,

On much closer inspection I do appear to have a very close fitting bracket which does give the illusion that the spring is bolted to the pump at the top end.

as you said dont compare it to my Dads Mk1 which is exactly what I was doing. the bracket is much more prominant on the Mk1 and more hidden on the Mk2.

so Now we have a bracket it seems it may have been assembled right by Citroen after all

I think it would be better to ask Martin @ Pleiades to fit a new tensioner assembly and have the old one out completely. what annoys me most is at times of emergency and ltd funds Citroen wont fit parts a customer has purchased themselves because they say they dont use auto-factors but if you spend enough time in the parts department you'll see and hear phonecalls to auto-factors and see the vans pull up on the forcourt. cheeky beggars.

now I know the correct componants are there it shouldnt be necessary to spend a day on the scrappy looking for the right bitsand I don't think its worth fitting used parts on this occasion.

thank you for the diagram I can print that off and show Martin at least I can be fairly confident that he will use good parts and not some rubbish that doesnt last very long. he did the cambelt, waterpump and serpentine belt back in February this year. wee couldnt find the cause of this noise even when we put the car back up on the ramps, martin retentioned the serpentine belt pulley bolts in the hope that the noise might go away, it was just out of luck that I put my hand on the spring and it went silent with no more rumbling noises about a week ago.

time to trade some veg and a packet of chocolate biccys for a quote.

regards Nigel.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 02 Aug 2010, 18:06

Paid a visit to pleiades this afternoon just waiting for a quote now Martin stripped down an old Bracket and showed me the needle bearings inside.

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 11 Aug 2010, 13:13

Martin @ Pleiades fitted the new aux-belt top tensioner but I hadnt bought a new spring.
the old tensioner has a plastic wheel and so did the new one (I am not impressed at all)

Martin did replace the old spring with another he had knocking around which quietens the noise when the engine is cold and gets louder as it heats up.

so I have bought a new spring to go in shortly. looking at the fitting on the end of the new spring it is quite difficult to tell the difference between the new and the old springs I think the noise must be being created by less than a thou of wear in the bush at the bottom of the spring which is very surprizing.

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 11 Aug 2010, 14:07

hi nigel, i fitted a new tensioner in March.. all was quite quiet for a while, now the cold high frequency rattle is back.. mine was a metal tensioner roller I think..

anyway, I think I am going to change / investigate the idler next and hope that is the problem.. my belt snapped 2 months after changing the tensioner (2 year old belt) .. anyway, not much help to you but in a similar boat..

John

falling-out-with-my-car · Post by **falling-out-with-my-car** » 12 Aug 2010, 10:54

john, try idling the engine and pushing down on the spring behind the hydraulic pump it tensions the aux-belt, apparently the mounting holes
elogate over time if the rattle stops its the spring, its still hard to believe that it would wear out in 15,000 miles but it is possible that the assembly missed the hardening process somewhere. My new tensioner pulley is plastic and this surprises me for something that wizzes around at such speeds however my car should be several ounces lighter now and therfore go a bit faster

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 12 Aug 2010, 11:12

good thinking will try that nigel

yep plastic rollers are all the rage.. done a few cambelts/heads because of these pesky things crushing..

Post by **KennyW** » 12 Aug 2010, 15:03

Hi Nigel,

Apparently the tensioner pulley is plastic, I have a friend who is manager @ Auotfactors and he regularly gets calls from the dealer re parts.

I obtained a Dayco which is the OE part supplied and they are plastic.

Kenny

John Plum · Post by **John Plum** » 14 Aug 2010, 02:12

Hi Nigel, I think you have a good point about the bushes. 1500 miles is premature failure, and the springs are supposed to be of high standard for the job - consider a valve spring and the work they do. A knackered roller would tend to wear out the bushes with its mis-alingned movement and a slapping belt.

So far as pattern parts go and these needle bearing idlers, all are outsourced, and I suspect they are all from the same circle of european standard factories (rather than say chinese on the scene), yet somehow the build varies enough to cause some premature failures, with no fault at fitting, rather than merely watering ingress. In any case, they seem to go at some point around 100, 000, and may therefore be considered realtively weak. There's no real need for that in my view. If there were a MK III xantia, maybe the roller would have been upgraded.