Noisy Xantia HDI Gearbox

Dannyboy · Unread post by **Dannyboy** » 10 Jul 2010, 18:07

Hi All, my first post on this forum. I`m back to a Xantia after a 4 yr absence. I had a `94 1.9TD for about 7 yrs from 99 to 2006 from 90K to 180K. I really liked it and when I needed a cheap reliable Diesel hatchback...I had to come back.
I have acquired a `01, 2.0 HDI Xantia with about 168K for the right price. .Funds are low so it suited the bill. I was apprenhesive about buying a car with this mileage but knew the HDI engines were durable. This forum is excellent by the way.

I have 3 items to fix :

1) drivers electric window cable....kit ordered from e-bay ( as recommended by forum )

2) Blower fan only works on full if you switch off the car move the slider to full and start the car.....checked the voltage from the ign sw....seems fine......I suspect the resistors on the resistor pack on the heat sink in the blower fan....fan will work on full if it gets 12 V direct. ( need more advice here )

3) Noisy gearbox at idle ...quiet when you press in the clutch.....it`s very rattley.......sounds and works fine when driving. Drained the watery old oil and added semi synthetic with a bardahl anti friction additive and it doesn`t sound any better. It has gotten worse over 500 miles or so before I changed the oil. I`m hoping it will go for many miles like this now that there is a good oil in it but I feel it would be better if there was something thicker and stickier in there.....might quieten it down but might make the gearchange sticky too. . Right now I`m afraid it won`t last too long. The old TD`s gearbox was noisy @ idle too @ 180 K but not this bad.
I would appreciate any opinions/ advice.

Otherwise it`s good to be back to the Citroen hydraulic club...the HDi goes really well and is a miser on fuel.

tks in advance......dannyboy.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 10 Jul 2010, 18:19

Hi Danny
Your suspicions about the blower resistors sound about right - pull the unit and check them, also the transistors on the blower but that is less likely.

As for the gearbox oil, anything other than Total BV 75w80 will have a seriously deleterious effect on the gearbox. May be too late now as it sounds like it has been run on some inferior substitute.
Worth changing it to see though, cheaper than fixing or replacing it.

Dannyboy · Unread post by **Dannyboy** » 10 Jul 2010, 21:33

Tks MyGlaren, an electronic engineer friend of mine is chasing the possible resistor snag on the blower.

As for the gearbox.....I haven`t seen total oil products on sale here in Ireland..........perhaps possibly from the Citroen dealers. I`ll have a look.............can it be that different ? ......I`ll certainly try it if I can get it .
Tks for advice...............dannyboy.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 11 Jul 2010, 06:27

Surprisingly it is quite critical, despite assertions among mechanics that 90w is fine.
The dealer may stock it but Total stations never seem to.

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 11 Jul 2010, 09:42

Danny if the box / noise is quiet with clutch in, it sounds for sure like the release bearing is bad..

a clutch kit maybe all you need..

John

Dannyboy · Unread post by **Dannyboy** » 11 Jul 2010, 11:12

Hi Jgra......its a rattley rumbly noise particularly loud in the l/h front wheel well......rather than a bearing noise .....to me it sounds too loud to be a release bearing.......prehaps I`m wrong .....I hope so !

I`m considering trying a thicker gear oil 90W ( back axle ) temporarily to see if it quietens things, if it does then it is definitely a gearbox issue rather than release bearing. .....it may cause other problems like gear change issues . ....I think I`m past the point of having the correct TOTAL oil in it to avoid wear issues. ....Dunno........I might try TOTAL as advised ...I`m waiting for other advise before I decide what to do. It`s a cheap runaround and I really don`t want to get into the expense / hassle of a gearbox and clutch replacement.

Funny thing the gearbox works really well otherwise, no noises while driving , gearchange is slick. .......perhaps under load it doesn`t rattle but power on or off doesn`t produce any noise changes. I had a 1.9 TD some years back.......replaced the clutch, release bearing etc.....put in a synthetic gear oil of correct spec....started it up and could hear a quieter version of my current noise.......I drained the synthetic oil as it appears thinner when cold and put back in fresh mineral gear oil......no difference. I dismissed it as always having been there but just sounded louder in the garage and did have 180K on it. . That gearbox didn`t get any louder but this one has gotten louder in the 2 weeks that I have it .

Tks for advise .....dannyboy.

Dannyboy · Unread post by **Dannyboy** » 16 Jan 2012, 23:32

Decided to bite the bullet.......had acquired the correct replacement gearbox during the year and now that the Xantia was off the road while I taught my teenage daughter to drive in a 106.......now is as good a time as any.
Haynes manual was helpful enough until it came to separating the gearbox from the engine. I have them split but don`t seem to have enough space to get the gearbox out and down. Its off the engine but jammed in position, gets stuck against the l/h chassis behind mostly. I have the l/h g/box mount upward facing bolt detached from the gearbox, so that`s not a problem. .....there`s not enough room to clear the shaft from the clutch. It looks like I will have to slide it back onto the engine and move the whole assembly so the gearbox left hand side ( facing forward ) comes forward and down.....maybe then I will get enough space to free it from the engine. .............any advice from the experienced bods would be appreciated. ..........Tks in advance................dannyboy

Unread post by **RichardW** » 17 Jan 2012, 07:51

You probably need to drop the engine an inch or so at the flywheel end, which in turn drops the end of the box and allows it to slide under the chassis rail. You may also need to rotate the gearbox towards the front of the car to allow the diff to clear the subframe. It's a right old fiddle on the ones I've done (not a Xantia - yet!), and is easier with 2 people and overhead support for the box.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 17 Jan 2012, 08:16

Yep, it's a tight squeeze. It's a 1010 HDi I take it with the ML5 'box. It's a bit of a porker..

In addition to waht you say Richard, it'll be easier if both driveshafts are completely removed. I know a BE3 will come out with the RH (long) shaft in place but on the ML5 every little bit helps...

All gearboxes I've done I've dropped the engine absolutely as low as possible and supported it from underneath whilst using an engine crane to hold the weight of the gearbox...

My HDi has a similarly noisy gearbox in neutral. It';s not getting any worse so it'll soldier on. I'll swap it one day but not before I absolutely have to...

Unread post by **RichardW** » 17 Jan 2012, 09:03

CitroJim wrote: It's a 1010 HDi I take it

If only

Veyron? Eat my soot

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 17 Jan 2012, 09:50

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 17 Jan 2012, 10:07

Soory for the typo

And many other typos in other thgreads. It's because I'm using sodding IE9 on a poxy laptiop with no spill chucker.

Can IE9 support a spell chucker?

I don't have the optrion of using Opera so I'm stuck wit IE9

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 17 Jan 2012, 12:48

Dannyboy wrote:Hi Jgra......its a rattley rumbly noise particularly loud in the l/h front wheel well......rather than a bearing noise .....to me it sounds too loud to be a release bearing.......prehaps I`m wrong .....I hope so !

I`m considering trying a thicker gear oil 90W ( back axle ) temporarily to see if it quietens things, if it does then it is definitely a gearbox issue rather than release bearing. .....it may cause other problems like gear change issues . ....I think I`m past the point of having the correct TOTAL oil in it to avoid wear issues. ....Dunno........I might try TOTAL as advised ...I`m waiting for other advise before I decide what to do. It`s a cheap runaround and I really don`t want to get into the expense / hassle of a gearbox and clutch replacement.

Funny thing the gearbox works really well otherwise, no noises while driving , gearchange is slick. .......perhaps under load it doesn`t rattle but power on or off doesn`t produce any noise changes. I had a 1.9 TD some years back.......replaced the clutch, release bearing etc.....put in a synthetic gear oil of correct spec....started it up and could hear a quieter version of my current noise.......I drained the synthetic oil as it appears thinner when cold and put back in fresh mineral gear oil......no difference. I dismissed it as always having been there but just sounded louder in the garage and did have 180K on it. . That gearbox didn`t get any louder but this one has gotten louder in the 2 weeks that I have it .

Tks for advise .....dannyboy.

Just to add a point... the HDi 90 and 110 use very different gearboxs. The 90 uses the older XUD gearbox with gear change Rods.. and a PUSH Clutch! where as the HDi 110 uses cables for the gear change (hence the smoothness) and a pull clutch of a different design to the older XUD pull clutch.. They will interchange, but then you'll have a clutch release issue..

Unread post by **myglaren** » 17 Jan 2012, 17:26

CitroJim wrote:Soory for the typo And many other typos in other thgreads. It's because I'm using sodding IE9 on a poxy laptiop with no spill chucker.

Can IE9 support a spell chucker?

I don't have the optrion of using Opera so I'm stuck wit IE9

Firefox is your friend

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 17 Jan 2012, 18:35

myglaren wrote: Firefox is your friend

Not on that laptop Steve

IE9 is the only choice I can have

Why can't Microsoft make a half (or even quarter) decent browser?

To add to my woes it's a wretched Tosh and its keyboard really is tosh

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