Early / later XUD water pumps - protector

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 23 Jun 2010, 18:15

What was the 'protection' added for with later water pumps ? (post 92 if I remember correctly when the covers went to bolt on design instead of clip on covers)

It's a 'side' to protect the drive sprocket on later ones, but it obviously does not fit the earlier ones due to the cover design (as far as I know the later pump will foul the earlier cover)

I'm just wondering what its actually for as the covers protect the belt anyway and if a stone got in the chances are it would end up in one of the other sprockets anyway and it does not really provide that much protection as such.

I do not see the reasoning for it, unless I've missed something glaringly obvious (which is quite possible)

Just a casual enquiry really from the curious, aka me

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 23 Jun 2010, 19:16

I know what you mean Andy, it sort of forms a part of the cambelt cover that would otherwise be missing.

To be honest, it's so long since I've seen an engine with the old covers, I can't recall either although I have a feeling deep-down that the covers will still fit... I can never recall an issue when I last did a pump on an engine with the clip-ons...

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 23 Jun 2010, 19:45

It was just brought to my mind again with me having to change my water pump (again) soon, I just could not work out what the protection was actually for, so I thought I'd ask the experts

Perhaps the cover will fit, although I have not yet checked to see if the earlier pumps are still available genuine.

Posted in this area rather than Peugeot as it was a general XUD enquiry rather than specific to my car, as I have wondered about the difference before.

Thanks Jim

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 23 Jun 2010, 19:53

Its completely down to type of cam belt cover fitted..

Earlyer cars had a FULL covering cover, that completely ran right down the back of the engine... that the "Clipped" type with back plate, then sometime later, I think when they switched to the Bolted covers, they deleted a part of the cover, which is filled in by the Pump... IN FACT oooppppssssss

ITs the other way round... I think. However, which ever, the pumps fit each way, you'd probably need to modify your cam belt cover...

Paul

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 26 Jun 2010, 00:16

I've had this problem with my ZX. I booked the car into a garage to replace the cambelt and water pump. When I got the car back, the lower cambelt cover was missing. I asked the garage why it was missing and they said that they couldn't fit it over the water pump because the new water pump was different to the old one. The new pump had the metal shield, the old pump had no shield. I bought the pump myself and nobody mentioned a shield when I bought it. I've bought a new lower cover but I didn't realise that there are two types. I don't know if it fits or not but knowing my luck it might be the wrong one. I couldn't find the drawing showing the cambelt cover on citroen service. Does anybody know where the cambelt cover is shown?

Paul

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 26 Jun 2010, 01:04

I found the cambelt cover on citroen service. It's called "GEAR HOUSING - PLUGS". No wonder people can't find things when they use names like that.

For the ZX 1.9D there are two designs of the cambelt covers. One is "until RPO 06264". The other is "since RPO 06265".

My car is 1993, RPO 6176.

I bought a new lower cambelt cover and the main dealer gave me the one for my RPO number. This is the earlier version and the part number of the lower cover is 0320.94

The part number of the later lower cover is 0320.F9

The garage said they couldn't fit the cover that came with the car. I've just bought the same cover again. I wonder if I should have bought the later cover to fit over the water pump with the metal shield. I'm not sure that the covers are interchangeable between versions. So maybe I need to buy all three covers of the new design. What a pain this is.

Are the water pumps available with or without shields as an option?

Is it possible to modify the early lower cover to allow for the water pump with the metal shield?

Paul

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 26 Jun 2010, 11:17

You need the correct type of belt covers, I do not think its possible to swap them (clip on vs bolt on) if nothing else the threaded holes are not always present.

Yes both pump types are available even from the dealer, be aware they wanted (this was about a week ago) £80 for the earlier pump

If buying from a motor factor, tell them you want it "without protection" or "without guard" (this is the earlier one for clip on covers) the later pump is for bolt on covers.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 26 Jun 2010, 21:58

Ive just fitted one "Without Guard" to a later "Bolted" Cam belt cover.. and thus has left the Belt Exposed around the Pump pully.. So it loos like Non guarded pumps are for "Clipped" covers, which were only on untill 1994, and its the lower cover behind the Crank pully that has the gap for the guard or not...

Paul

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 27 Jun 2010, 00:17

80 pounds for a water pump is a complete rip off. I certainly won't be buying one from the main stealers then. I bought my water pump from gsfcarparts years ago but never fitted it until now. Just checked the current price - 23 pounds plus vat. They don't mention the shield though and they sent me the wrong one. I would have sent it back if I'd known but it's too late now.

I'll have to consider my options now. The water pump, with shield, is fitted to the car. I could change it for the non-shield version but it's a lot of hassle and expense. I'm thinking that the best option might be to try to modify the lower cambelt cover so it fits. The garage said they thought about this but they said it would weaken the cover too much. I reckon they might have said that to get out of re-doing the job.

The lower cambelt cover is held on by two bolts and a clip. I think all the mounting points should remain untouched by the modification. I probably just need to saw a bit off the top left-hand of the cover with a hacksaw. There's a bit of plastic on the cover which looks like it's meant to support a hose or pipe. I haven't got a pipe in that area on my car so that doesn't need to be there. The lower cover is only a tenner so it looks like it's worth attempting the modification. I can always buy a new cover next time if I get a water pump without a shield. I suppose I could cut the water pump shield with a hacksaw. It's only aluminium. Probably easier to do the cover though.

I noticed on citroen service that some ZX water pumps are marked "NFP" for "No Futher Production". I wonder if those are the ones without the guard. It's doesn't give any information about them though. Maybe they're selling off the final stocks and that's why the price is so high.

Paul

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 27 Jun 2010, 11:19

The pumps are the same for some other models, certainly as far as I am aware at least.

My "quote" was for my 205TD (but the pump is the same anyway) , so if you need one with the protector spend some time seeing what other XUD vehicles were around at that time with the earlier covers (405 / BX etc)

I thought about buying a later one and chopping the protector side off but decided against it. Got one from a local good quality factors instead for £27

Tthe last one was really cheap (not from there, from a different cheap place as I was in a hurry

but the bearings failed in a year)

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 27 Jun 2010, 23:17

The bit on the lower cambelt cover that I thought was meant to hold a pipe is actually there to hold the top left cambelt cover down.

I've tried assembling the covers and an old non-shielded water pump on a bench (not on the car) and I can see that the problem is that the two lower sections of shielding are duplicated in plastic and in aluminium. I'll have to try it on the car when I've got time to see if the plastic shield on the lower cover can be made to sit alongside the aluminium bit.

Paul

the_weaver · Unread post by **the_weaver** » 28 Jun 2010, 07:43

I've been doing some research and I've come to the conclusion that some cars may have been built which have the water pump with metal guard AND the old type cambelt covers. My car seems to be one of them. It's a ZX 1.9D RP number 6176. The water pump part number for the ZX first changed at RP 6171. The cambelt cover design didn't change until RP 6265. So cars between RP 6171 and 6265 may have the water pump with a guard and the old cambelt covers. I can't find any descriptions or pictures of the Citroen main dealer water pumps so I can't be sure that the pump went from non-guarded to guarded at RP 6171. However I've searched around a few online suppliers for equivalents to the Citroen part numbers and they all show a pump with a guard for my car's RP number and a pump without a guard for an earlier RP number.

I think that the first water pump for the ZX was 1201.60 which had no guard. This was replaced at RP 6171 by 1201.91 which probably has a guard.

The water pump that gsfcarparts supplied to me is an Airtex 1361 which has a guard. I checked the Airtex catalogue and this is the correct one for my RP number and the photo shows a guard present. If I change the RP to the earlier one it shows a different pump with no guard. The Airtex website is at:-

www.airtex.es

Paul