'99 Xantia 1.9TD - PAS supply pipe repair advice/price?

hopkinse · Unread post by **hopkinse** » 23 Jun 2010, 16:47

Hi,
I've got a leaking PAS supply pipe, which is weeping LHM from the join to the hydraulic pump ( it is the right hand pipe on the top of the pump, looking from the front ). I've taken it apart and it looks like a standard brake flare joint. Is this correct? If yes, can I get away with using a draper flare tool to recreated the flare? I'm assuming it is steel pipe so I'm not sure that it would be up to the job.

I've been quoted £160 for a replacement pipe. Can I get them cheaper from anywhere other than a Citroen garage? Alternatively, if I were to get a better quality flaring tool am I likely to be able to get a satisfactory join? Any recomendations on flarers that will do steel tube?

TIA,

Ewan.

Unread post by **myglaren** » 23 Jun 2010, 19:04

Welcome Ewan!
While I can't address some of the specifics there is a very good Citroen hydraulics engineer allied to the forum who has an excellent reputation.

If you give Martin at Pleiades a ring I'm sure he can advise you and likely provide a solution at a lower cost than the dealer.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 23 Jun 2010, 19:27

That pipe is an absolute &*%*(&)&^ to replace. One of the very worst jobs of all

Often replacements from Citroen have the wrong flare on the pinion end. That's fun!

Normally, they leak at the flare bbecause someone before has been there and been a bit over-enthusiastic with the flare nut spanner and squashed the damm thing.

So long as the pipe is intact, I've found in the past that a gentle "dressing" of the flare surfaces and great care in replacement does the trick.

To replace, undo the "P" clips and screw the flare union nut fully in by hand whilst maneuvering the pipe to allow it to fully screw home by hand. Then just nip it up tight. Don't go mad and do it up eye-poppingly tight. The, and only then, retighten the "P" clips

The rubber section in that pipe is essential and it cannot satisfactorily be replaced with an all-metal pipe, even with coils in it.

If push comes to shove, get a replacement metal lenght from a scrapyard that has a good flare, cut the bad end off about 3 or so inches down and braze in the replacement section. I find it best to use a short length of 4.5mm pipe as a joint insert. You should be able to do a satisfactory job using a flux-coated brazing rod and a good quality fine tipped propane torch. You need to get the whole joint glowing cherry-red to ensure a good braze and of course, scrupulous cleanliness is essential.

Remember there is a massive pressure in this pipe when the steering is on full-lock. A burst here is interesting...

EDIT: To put a satisfactory new fare in steel pipe using tools intended for Kunifer pipe is impossible. Those steel pipes are thick and hard.

hopkinse · Unread post by **hopkinse** » 24 Jun 2010, 14:31

Hi,
Thanks for the advice - much appreciated! I'm new to Citroens having had nothing but 80's vintage vdubs and 90's audis for the last 20 years - totally different approach to car construction!

I put the car into a local garage yesterday as there were also problems with the starter, which had decided to die in sympathy, and the aux drive belt which I suspect took a coating of LHM as the last straw and had also started to strip itself - I just didn't have time to do them myself. They had a look at the pipe but they dont have a flaring tool that'll do steel pipe and I think it's now leaking more than it was when I put it in.

I'm going to have another go tonight at cleaning up and reseating the joint to see if I can at least get it driveable again - i noticed, while I was waiting for the aa to come and tow me to the garage, that whoever had been at it before hadn't bothered to reconnect the p-clamps so that may explain why the joint sprung a leak.

I'm going to have a look round the scrapyards to see if I can get a replacement pipe end and I've also spoken to a Citroen specialist who's not too far away from me - they reckoned they could probably do something if I'm stuck - so here's hoping!

I'll post what ever solution i eventually come up with.

The garage are also saying that the car is leaking air into the fuel line at the fuel filter housing so that will be something else to look at next. joy oh joy!

cheers,

Ewan.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 25 Jun 2010, 07:59

what did the garage do about the belt,

you might find the aux belt auto tensioner is running on at angle were the pivot bearing have colapsted,

regards malcolm

hopkinse · Unread post by **hopkinse** » 25 Jun 2010, 13:22

The garage just replaced the belt - didn't mention anything about it not running straight. I'll have a look see but the belt that was replaced looked pretty old anyway.

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 25 Jun 2010, 20:45

if you look down the cam belt end of the engine with it running, you will see if the tensioner just below and rear of the alternator is not running true,

if the aux belt fails it can wind its way into the cam belt cover and take out the cam belt as well

regards malcolm