405 Rust

This is the Forum for all your Peugeot Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
evilally
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 742
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
Location: Clydebank, Near Glasgow.
My Cars:
x 2

405 Rust

Post by evilally »

Whilst poking about under the car I saw this, at the rear of the sill:

Image

Is this anything to worry about, and how would I fix it? There is something similar towards the front of the sill. Never welded in my life, where do I start?

Under the boot floor was also very rusty:

Image

So I tapped all the rust off with a small hammer, treated it with Vactan rust converter then gave it 3 nice even coats of hammerite:

Image

However, I'm a little late for the rear subframe. It's rusted through in various places and just crumbled away. Will this be a problem come MOT time?
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

any rust (not surface rust) within 30cm (in all direction) of seat belt and suspension mounttings, structure/box sections, door sill's and sub frames is a failiure,

can you show better picy's of the sub frame rust

regards malcolm
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

citronut wrote:can you show better picy's of the sub frame rust
Indeed, that'll help enormously. I expect you'll be off to a scrappy soon for a better subframe!!! Is is just the shock absorber plates that are looking a bit frilly?

The other rust will not be too hard to fix with a MIG. After your head and gearbox work, I'm sure you'll get MIG Welding mastered before Breakfast Ally :lol:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10814
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 984

Post by RichardW »

IIRC Ally, you are not far from Glasgow....??? I live in Lanark and have a MIG (and just about the skills to use it :lol: ) and SWBO is away for 3 weeks in June / July so there might be some play time available.... 8-)
Richard W
evilally
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 742
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
Location: Clydebank, Near Glasgow.
My Cars:
x 2

Post by evilally »

Cheers guys, I was lazy so took some crappy phone pics, I would really need to jack the car up and drop the spare wheel to get decent ones. If that would help, I'll do that at the weekend. Anyway, here they are:

Rear subframe rusted through, it's like this in a few places:

Image

Sill corrosion at the rear of the sill:

Image

Strangely, the other side is solid as a rock. Possibly some fool has jacked it up here and weakened it.

Corrosion at the front, behind subframe:

Image

Funny thing is, it passed it's MOT in August with no advisories!
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
evilally
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 742
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
Location: Clydebank, Near Glasgow.
My Cars:
x 2

Post by evilally »

RichardW wrote:IIRC Ally, you are not far from Glasgow....??? I live in Lanark and have a MIG (and just about the skills to use it :lol: ) and SWBO is away for 3 weeks in June / July so there might be some play time available.... 8-)
That's very kind of you mate 8-) I'm over in Clydebank!
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
evilally
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 742
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
Location: Clydebank, Near Glasgow.
My Cars:
x 2

Post by evilally »

What do you guys think of this?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Clarke-100e-mk2-M ... 45f31f8642

It's near enough I could collect it, and it costs £220 new in Machinemart.
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

the first of your second batch of picys is the chassis rail not the sub frame,
the sub frame is unboltable,

if these show the worst of the tin worms eforts, it is fixable,

i think the MOT tester that passed it needs to go to specsavers, unless that chassis rail is outside of the 30cm range and not cosiderd structual,

that mig welder is crap/just a toy, and will not serve you well, i you plan on doing lots of welding, and going by those picys you do, i would look at mig's around the 150 amp range, and fix it up with a propper bottle and regulator,

pub gas is useable and work fine, even though the correct gas for mild steel is argon shield, which is a mix of argon and co2,


regards malcolm

as the small disposable bottles only last about 15min's continuouus wewlding,

regards malcolm
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

To be fair on the MOT tester, it was 10 months ago and we've just come through a winter where the councils spread salt like it was going out of fashion. We're now seeing the consequences of it. I'm sure last year it looked fine and remember the MOT man can't poke that hard at suspect patches... A year is plenty of time for rust to set in.

Agreed on the welder. Invest in the best you can afford. They're a lifetime investment. Also, I understand the gasless MIGs are not as good as claimed. I may well pass by MIG completely and go straight to TIG.

The subframe, if showing sny significant rust is best replaced. They're easy enough to unbolt and a scrappy should be able to provide a better one.

I'm worried that one patch of rust appears to be right next to a subframe mount (final picture in the second batch) That's a sure-fire fail. Looks straightforward enough to repair...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

i dont belive rust suddenly appears in that short time and to that degree, but it is possible the rust on that chassis rail is outside of the failable 30cm zone's

and the rust just by the sub frame mount might have still been coverd by the mastic coat PSA apply to the hole of the underside of there car's,

i would like to try a TIG but i think they would be way to much dosh for me to buy one,

regards malcolm
Gammy leg
Posts: 247
Joined: 25 Apr 2006, 10:22
Location: In Transit
My Cars:

Post by Gammy leg »

Ally,

Welding is an art so I would recommend plenty of dry runs on similar gash bits of plate before tackling the real thing. Although you're probably not fussed about the final aestetic, it is very easy to burn holes in whats already there if you get the timing wrong.

Gammy
2000 Synergie 1.9Td
evilally
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 742
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
Location: Clydebank, Near Glasgow.
My Cars:
x 2

Post by evilally »

Understood Gammy. I'm debating if I should take it to a professional. I've got 2 problems, firstly learning how to do the bloody thing, then the expense of buying a reasonable welder that wouldn't get much use otherwise.

Everyone says 405's don't rust, why is mine rusty :bigcry:
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10814
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 984

Post by RichardW »

There's quite a bit of fab / welding to do there Ally. You might well find the cost of getting someone to do it will be near the cost of a welder. I've got a Clarke 135 TE which produces reasonable results (even in my cack hands!), will weld up to 5mm, and is fan cooled for prolonged use - £200 - £250 at Machine Mart I think. However, they're a life long investment really, there's all sorts of odds and ends that need a bit of welding, and it's useful to drag the MIG out and do it.

The rear sill should be easy enough - the hole will be bigger once cleaned up though! The front one might be tricky - you will need to give it a good clean up and assess whether it extends towards the subframe mount, in which case the subframe might need dropping to effect a proper repair. You will also need to assess what's above it inside the car to see what needs removing (carpets etc - they burn nicely!). Repairing those cross members at the rear is going to be tougher though - depends on if there is enough to weld to, which may make the fabrication harder without a folder.

You're probably into a good weekend's work to sort that lot out!
evilally wrote:Everyone says 405's don't rust, why is mine rusty
'Cos we live in the West of Scotland where they throw salt about with Gay abandon and it rains all the time :lol: My 7 year old Picasso has rusted a sill through :evil: 9 year old Xantia is OK though. Touch wood :?
Richard W
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25366
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4888

Post by myglaren »

Careful with that welder - check out pictures 10 & 11 here.
evilally
(Donor 2020)
Posts: 742
Joined: 17 Apr 2008, 22:39
Location: Clydebank, Near Glasgow.
My Cars:
x 2

Post by evilally »

Ok, I think the plan will be:

Drop the subframe. I'll scrub it up and coat it with something. I'll probably pull the steering rack out as well, scrub that up and replace what needs replacing (I know one of the boots is split). Then take care of the welding, re-assemble.

Next, I think I'd like to drop the rear beam and give it propper going over. That would let me in to have a good look at everything under there and sort what needs sorting.

Bugger, another project thread already......

What do you think of this, it's probably about as much as I'd want to spend:

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/shop/produ ... ig-welders
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
Post Reply