hydraulic pump

i3 · Post by i3 » 28 May 2010, 11:06

hy all, just wondered,, i was interested in finding out a little about the hydraulic pump,, which one is the correct application for the 2.1td vsx 1997?
are the 2.1td and 1.9td hydraulic pumps interchangeable? are any of the different engine model pumps suitable for the 2.1td?
thanks

Post by **CitroJim** » 28 May 2010, 11:12

I think 1.9TD and 2.1TD pumps are interchangable. If they look identical they will be.

Why do you ask?

i3 · Post by i3 » 28 May 2010, 11:54

well...im not sure,,, i noticed that there was a leak coming from my car...looking at it from the front,,you can see it signs of a leak on the ground beneath the left-side(drivers-side) of the engine bay...when i had a look... i didnt give it a proper or thorough check though,,, i noticed lhm on the hydraulic pump...so im thinking,,,it may be at fault...im not sure...
i was looking at pump prices to get a rough idea,,i saw one removed from a 1.9td for £15ish,,,so i thought if it is suitable i may as well get it just in case,,and if my pump turns out not to be at fault, then, there may be someone else on the forum or something that may want it....
is that cheap price?

Post by **CitroJim** » 28 May 2010, 14:02

If it's leaking in the vicinity of the large 19mm hexagon where the left-hand delivery pipe exits then it is a very cheap fix indeed. You just need an O ring from the stealers. They cost pennies. It's a very common problem.

Odds on it'll be that. Clean the pump up and then observe...

i3 · Post by i3 » 29 May 2010, 04:56

hope it will be just that then...il have a proper check this afternoon hopefully.
oh,,i actually meant the lhm was leaked out,not on to the pump,but on the thing right below it,the alternator...i think?

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 May 2010, 09:14

Yep, that is the alternator and indeed, the last refuge of LHM that has leaked from the pump.

Good idea to sort it as LHM and alternators don't get on too well. Sooner or later it may kill the alternator.

Give the pump a good clean up. (I use brake cleaner and then blow-dry with an airline) and very soon you'll see exactly where the leak is coming from. Pay particular attention to the 19mm hex thread. If this is weeping you'll soon see a teardrop of LHM forming.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 29 May 2010, 11:31

there's also a 19mm blank further around the pump, this can sometimes leak so it's worth getting 2 o-rings and changing that one as well anyway.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 29 May 2010, 21:47

and be aware there are two diferent sized seals on one pump,

regards malcolm

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 30 May 2010, 07:02

yes one size for the 19mm hex that leak and one size for the torx that don't tend to leak

fifth_cit · Post by **fifth_cit** » 02 Jun 2010, 08:41

This could be the problem that is occurring with my sons Xantia. When changing these seals does the system need de-pressurising first ?

Post by **CitroJim** » 02 Jun 2010, 08:46

Yes, it's not a bad idea to. Even then you'll get a good loss of LHM.

I find it's good to pop a sheet of polythene under the filler cap on the LHM reservoir to create a bit of a depression to keep as much LHM in as possible.

Then, and this is very important, protect the alternator from LHM spills by covering it. I have found a nappy works well as it will both cover the alternator and catch spilt LHM.

Undo all the "P" clips on the pipe and undo using a 12mm flare nut spanner. Gently tease it out of the way. Then undo the 19mm hex. Take it carefully and slowly and in doing so you'll not dislodge the ball and spring underneath it.

i3 · Post by i3 » 03 Jun 2010, 18:53

Jim, i had a little look at the pump today... it was all pretty dry, the alternator and pump,,no leaked lhm,, i dried with a towel anyway,,,i couldnt see any leaks coming through,,,so i started the car and when i then looked,,there was a small amount of lhm on the top of the alternator toward the left side of it which looks as though it leaked from the bottom of the pump,,, but,,,this did not increase,,i left the car on a little while,,nothing,,so i turned off,,wiped it up,,no leaks that i can see,,,so i started the car again,,still couldnt see any leaks,,,even from where it just leaked from earlier,,what should i be looking out for? where exactly?...ok,,,underneath th car however,,is the usual signs of leakage,,,there are two areas on the ground where lhm is leaking to....you know underneath the car on the drivers side,,there is that small section of underpanel or whatever it is called,,,its basically under the hp pump,,alternator area,,and extends back to like roughly where the tyre is...well the lhm laks and leaves patches on the floor,,one towards the back of that underpanel thing and one towards the front,,,so basically one is pretty much under the hp pump alternator etc area,,,the other is near the tyre... the at the front of the car is smaller,,the one towards the tyre is larger...this keeps dripping,,but i dont know where from,,, i thought maybe it is just the fluid leaked onto that underpanel thing...? but im not sure... ....what is the thing under the alternator? it maybe leaking from there...? i have also noticed that it also has the belts attached to it,,,and the pulley attached to it spins slowly,,really slowly and inconsistently,,while the belt attached to it is spinning normal speed...is that supposed to be?

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 03 Jun 2010, 19:04

Odds on the thing sitting under the alternator with belts and pipe feeds is
your air conditioning pump and it will turn at speeds independant of the
engine as there's a clutch on the pulley.

The leak is likely the o ring seals on the main high pressure feed pipes
or the low pressure rubber feed pipe.

Andrew

i3 · Post by i3 » 03 Jun 2010, 19:24

where exactly are the main high and low pressure pipes located? any diagrams or images would help alot...thanks

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 03 Jun 2010, 20:03

The x2 high pressure are the metal pipes on the cylinder body of the
pump pictured with slight turquoise colouration in the following picture:

IIRC this is a picture posted on Flickr by Deian.

Another cross section shows the feeds in/out:

The high pressure is number 1 and the low pressure is 3.

The seal is number 5 in this diagram:

Andrew