Activa won't rise or fall.

robert_e_smart · Unread post by **robert_e_smart** » 21 May 2010, 11:30

Hi folks,

Last night I went out to my activa to take her for a quick spin. But the car wouldn't lift at all. The stop light was lit but wouldn't go out.

The car was just below normal height. I then tried to drop the car to lowest setting, with the intention of undoing the bleed screw on the pressure regulator. And then putting the car up to full height. (This has helped me raise limp cars before).

On selecting low, the back end slowly went down, but the front stayed up!
On selecting full height, the car would rise very slowly, when I mean slowly I never got it to full height, the back would move, the front wouldn't. I got annoyed after waiting for 3 minutes for the car to rise, so I let the back come up to normal height.

I released the bleed screw, and it made a hiss, but the car was still very slow at rising.

There is plenty of LHM. And this is the first time I have had this problem.
I tried priming the pump from the hose on the lhm reservoir, but that didn't make any difference either, it wasn't taking any oil.

I decided to chance it, and took the car for a short run, and after half a mile, the light went of, and normal service was resumed, the suspension had come up to normal operating height and normal "comfort".

One thing I didn't notice this time was the car shuffing from side to side. It normally does this at idle. But not so last night. On the test run, the anti-roll was working as before. I have new roll corrector link rods and mounting blocks ready to fit to the car as well.

I welcome all suggestions.

Regards

Robert

KevMayer · Unread post by **KevMayer** » 21 May 2010, 19:24

The problem may be that the front electrovalve is passing in soft mode due to a weak 'small' spring.

I've had similar effects due to a passing front electrovalve. You can strip them down and extend the spring in question. There's several threads on here covering this work.

When you have this problem the electrovalve will change to hard mode and the Activa will stay flat in a corner as usual.

Unread post by **aerodynamica** » 21 May 2010, 20:00

Also could simply be that the HP pump was not primed fully after sitting for so long and the anti sink valves were remaining mostly closed preventing downward and upward movement.

robert_e_smart · Unread post by **robert_e_smart** » 21 May 2010, 21:55

Thanks for the advice folks.

I'll disconnect the hydractive ECU to have her in had mode, and see what that gives.

I hate Anti-sink. Citroens are meant to sink. Without antisink, the HP pumps had a higher output and could lift the car quicker than these later 6+2 pumps!

Unread post by **Dommo** » 22 May 2010, 10:54

robert_e_smart wrote:I hate Anti-sink. Citroens are meant to sink. Without antisink, the HP pumps had a higher output and could lift the car quicker than these later 6+2 pumps!

Agreed!!

I'd love to fit the old pump and flow distribution valve setup to my Activa

Is there a way to test if the anti roll system ever switches to soft mode?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 May 2010, 11:38

Yours is certainly taking a long time to rise Robert. If the stop light is on for a long time then there is a problem with the pump/pressure regulator or, as kev says, the hydractive valves.

If they are leaking, they often give the game away by making a "flushing toilet" sort of noise when you switch off the engine. A noise not unlike the sound you hear when you open the bleed screw as LHM rushes back to the reservoir.

As you say, forcing hard by removing F8 will help isolate those. Else you have one heck of an internal leak elseware...

Normal extinguish time for the stiop light on an Activa is about 30 seconds. It's much longer than any other Xantia.

Dommo wrote: I'd love to fit the old pump and flow distribution valve setup to my Activa

Is there a way to test if the anti roll system ever switches to soft mode?

Dom, you could although it would be a job. You'd need a very early VSX "sinker" as donor...

I agree, having owned a "sinker" for a long time that proper Citroens should sink...

Only way to know if the Activa Electrovalve switches is to either go for a ride with a Lexia or wire an LED onto the electrovave supply line. Remember the default state of the Activa Electrovalve is opposite to a Hydractive one... (i.e. the Activa Balancing sphere is in circuit when the valve is de-energised to provide a spring between the anti-roll bars and thus soften them a tad.

robert_e_smart · Unread post by **robert_e_smart** » 22 May 2010, 13:57

Well I have taken out F8 to force the car into hard, and now the back end is much more responsive than perviously, but the front is still playing silly buggers. So it looks likes a bit of fun with the electrovalve then.

I take it that a Hydractive 2 Electrovalve from a XM will be the same? I'd prefer to swop them over at the moment rather than stripping one back.

I want to fix the rams today.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 May 2010, 20:42

Yep, I believe the electrovalves are the same. They can be a devil to get out though. You need a specially ground-thin 24mm deep hex socket for the job if the valve does not come out by applying a socket to the 16mm top hex by the leakoff pipe. More often that not the body stays in place and undoing the 16mm hex disassembles the valve. I have done a spring stretch like that, with the body left in-situ... Bit risky and fiddly though...

Watch for body corrosion on the rear valve too...

Did you do the ram today? Mine are holding up well.

It's worth checking the filters in the LHM reservoir just in case they're so well gunged up they're restricting flow. Does the steering feel heavy?

robert_e_smart · Unread post by **robert_e_smart** » 22 May 2010, 21:36

I disconnected the plug from the front electrovalve, and normal service has been resumed for the time being. So it must be the spring then. I'll have to add it to the to do list.

Today I had a go at the ram, but experimenting with a BX PAS return boot, Its a much tighter fit than the XM boot, and much shorter as well. However it is leaking past the boot, so I'll have to use the XM boot I have and see if that does the trick.

I replaced the 2 roll corrector rods and the mounting blocks to try and stop the car from shuffling side to side. The old rods were badly worn where they are held onto the subframe, and one of the mounting block sets was also bad.

But the car is still shuffling from side to side!

This has been a very frustrating afternoon! 1 step forwards, 2 steps back and all that.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 23 May 2010, 08:05

Which ram did you try the repair on Robert?

I was not aware of a BX gaiter. Do you have the part number and possibly a comparative picture between it and the XM gaiter? I'm thinking the BX one may be better for the front ram.

When was the LHM last changed and how clean does it look?

I ask as many electrovalve issues are down to dirty LHM and particles of dirt on the valve seats. If the LHM and filters are very dirty, a session of Hydraflush is highly recommended.

I know what you mean about one step forward and two back with an Activa

Goes with the territory!

On the shuffling problem, check carefully that the roll corrector mechanism is free to move properly. It's composed of four spring-loaded plates that move around a central pivot. The spring-loaded plates need to be able to slide freely. To aid this the plates are separated by polythene sheets. Over time, moisture gets in and rusts the plates and makes it hard for them to freely slide and the lumps of rust foul on the polythene.

A good douse in WD40 as you'd do for a height corrector helps but if the thing is really stiff it'll need to come off and be exercised and possibly dismantled. Trouble is, it's all riveted together although I succeeded in pulling one apart using a press to drive the rivets out. That mechanism is now doing sterling service on my Sliver Activa.

These pictures showing a roll corrector in bits may help:

When setting up the roll corrector rods, ensure they are not fouling on the ARB bearing brackets when they pass close by on the subframe. They must be spaced 6mm away and this is why the wishbone ends have slots.

Then ignore completely the words that the bottle screws must be set initially at 74mm. Set them so that at normal ride height the alignment holes in the roll corrector meet. You can simulate normal ride height by putting the front of the car on stands and then placing identical thickness blocks under the front wheels to bring the wheels to normal and level ride height. It helps to have a level drive to do this job on.

Adjust the bottle screws so there is a little (just a tad) pre-load in the roll corrector springs whilst maintaining alignment.

Beware the bottle screws have a LH thread on one end... Use a flare nut spanner to undo the locknuts.

After this you'll need to possibly fine-level the car by very small adjustments of the bottle screws. This can take days to get right

It's a black art and had me tearing my hair out...

Unread post by **xantia_v6** » 23 May 2010, 08:29

robert_e_smart wrote: I take it that a Hydractive 2 Electrovalve from a XM will be the same? I'd prefer to swop them over at the moment rather than stripping one back.

That is an interesting question, and according to the part numbers, no, the Xantia and XM electrovalves are different.

The difference is probably in the damping elements, as the Mk1 Xantia V6 uses a "Xantia" electrovalve on the rear and an "XM" electrovalve on the front.

I would be interested to know which has the softer damping...

robert_e_smart · Unread post by **robert_e_smart** » 23 May 2010, 12:17

I tried to repair the front one. It being easier to mess about with on the bench.

So here is a picture of the boots :

Activa on the far left, Bx in the middle and the Xm one on the far right.

The photo below shows how much smaller the diameter of the Bx boot is compared to the Xm boot. Its so small it actually fits inside it.

This picture shows how much smaller the Bx one is than the Activa one. The Activa one is sitting on top of the Bx boot.

This picture shows the Bx boot on the Activa ram, it has a nice snug fit.

Now the Xm boot on the Activa Ram.

So, proceeding with the use of the Bx boot. I put the metal outer cover back onto the ram, after trimming the gaiter retaining olive off, I then slipped the Bx boot over the top of the metal outer cover, and left the top part of the Bx boot covering the metal outer so that the fluid could then get into the boot. I put a cable tie down below the Bx boot to stop it from sliding off the metal outer.
I split the olive so I could slide it over the metal outer.

So I'm wondering now where the leak is getting out. It might be because the boot is fouling on the cable tie at the bottom. I need to remove the ram from the car to investigate further. I'm surprised it is leaking, the BX boot is such a tight fit. And as far as I know the return pipe port isn't obstructed by the metal outer. So more tinkering to be done.

Here are some snaps of the ram in situ on the car.

In this picture you can see the oil coming out over the top of the boot!

robert_e_smart · Unread post by **robert_e_smart** » 23 May 2010, 12:24

For reference the BX boot is part number 95 592 155. Its more or less the same price as the XM boot.

I'll have to check the roll corrector control rods to see if they have the necessary clearance.

My roll corrector mechanism, appears to be nice and free, its also very clean and rust free. Although thats not to say that there isn't some problem with it.

Here is her Activaness with part of Team CX and Team XM. And people thought XMs were complicated and difficult!

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 23 May 2010, 22:26

That's really interesting on the BX gaiter Robert. Looks like there is nothing really for the cable tie to get hold of in order to make a good seal, unlike the grooves in the XM gaiter... How tight was the BX gaiter on the bottom of the ram shaft as it needs to be tight? LHM is so thin it can find it's way out of the tiniest gap.

I wonder if you can raise a nice surface as I did in the lathe on a front ram if the gaiter will pull down onto that and make a tighter seal. Trouble is, corrosion makes the surface so rough that unless you can bring up a smooth surface, sealing will be compromised.

Seems LHM has a good ability to creep, in say, the same way as Plus-Gas has and this makes it a challenge to seal in on a job like this. Alos, LHM is vicious stuff and will attack may types of sealant that may help effect a seal. I've not tested it but Blue Hylomar may work.

Loving the parade of vehicles. A very tasty collection

robert_e_smart · Unread post by **robert_e_smart** » 24 May 2010, 09:16

Luckily the lower surface of the ram has not suffered any corossion at all.

The Bx gaiter is a very tight fit so I am susprised that it is leaking, It must be something simple, as it seems to be leaking from the top of the gaiter rather than the bottom. I'll have to investigate further and see what I can come up with.

It may well be that the outlet for the lhm on the Bx boot isn't big enough, it certainly looks much smaller than the XM one. If I fail again I'll just use the Xm gaiter, and hopefully get the results you do.

Saturday got off to a good start when G154UFJ passed its MOT, so 4 out of 6 in the fleet are MOTd which is a record. This Activa may be fun to MOT!