New sill now?

HDI Dave · Unread post by **HDI Dave** » 12 May 2010, 11:14

As much as i like this new to me french thing, this xantia is trying its best to annoy me!
Think i'll start a blog and just lump all future problems together lol.
Who keeps saying they don't rust? My car seems to be winning the self destruct award single handedly,it's appearing all over...I know it's old now,but my last two cars,pug 306 and a mundano were solid as a rock,could hit em with a lump hammer! This french thing aint

Only noticed this when i went to lube the height correctors and front struts...
Right,gripe over,sorry

New sill or can it be patched?

How much am i looking at,£ wise? Just when i don't need it..mot's due soon..oh well, c'est la vie!

Cheers, Dave.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 12 May 2010, 12:16

Dave, has the car had an insurance event like immersion, in its lifetime? Or was it used to back a trailer down a boat ramp?

Both the rear wheelwell corrosion and now this, suggest major contamination.

You know I like S2 Xantias, but I honestly have to say that one is probably on the way out.

What are the UK laws on re-shelling?

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 12 May 2010, 12:27

Is that a structural point on the car? I cant imagine it getting that bad in the last year, you would have thought it would have been picked up on the last MOT?

I was going to say could it have been a blocked drain causing the rot, though once there is a hole it wouldnt cause the rurther damage.

How rusty is the rest of the car?

What i can see of the underside there doesnt look too bad? Whats the other side sill like? Maybe its had the sill and wing replaced in the past, and so its not to the normal xantia standards, if its been an aftermarket part. As Xantias are galvanised, are they not?

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 12 May 2010, 12:40

WELL!!

A second one for me! Ive got a Xantia 1, a 1995 M plater, that has also rotten through the rear sills!!

So thats two in the UK that have gone.. out of all the Xantias, these must have blockage problems or something, as its the only two Ive seen go..

Even my L reg 1993 with 226k on her is showing NO signs of any rust at all!

Paul

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 12 May 2010, 12:40

That's amazing. I'd agree with you Chris, that this might be as a result of "reworking" at some time or from, as you say Adam, immersion.

My Activa Project looks like it's been buried in a salt mine for the past several centuries as is/was red with rust underneath but structurally it is rock solid and all areas of the body are fine despite it leaking like a seive for an extended period and being home to a family of fish.

I do wonder if the older MK1s are better made/protected than the late MK2s...

Most odd..

Two options, patch or go to a scrappy and chop a whole sill from an unsuspecting Xantia and do a transplant..

Fire up the MIG Dave!!!

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 12 May 2010, 12:41

Citroen dont sell cills for Xantias do they ??

Paul

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 12 May 2010, 12:47

citroenxm wrote:Citroen dont sell cills for Xantias do they ??

I expect they do Paul but I'll bet they cost the price of a new C6 or more. I believe new sills for the XM are available at an outragous price.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 12 May 2010, 12:48

Yes!

150 quid EACH last time I checked!!

Paul

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 12 May 2010, 12:54

It's only a year since they relegated the "Caisse complet" to NFP... Surely there are sills available yet?

Properly letting in a sill is MAJOR work on a car like the Xantia, as the original is one pressing from the A pillar through to the C pillar leading edge. Preparing the inner with a zinc-rich weld-through primer, is an important step.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 12 May 2010, 13:05

CitroJim wrote: I do wonder if the older MK1s are better made/protected than the late MK2s...

I think thats true with Xms too actually. S1s seem to stand up to rust better than S2s. Maybe Citroen went through a bad phase of rust protection.

davetherave · Unread post by **davetherave** » 12 May 2010, 13:10

Id go for a patch, but make sure its well prepped and done by someone decent, then inject the sills with oil.
The welder who did the same area on my xm made it practialy invisible!

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 12 May 2010, 13:17

i'd say its either caused from blocked drains' or some ploncker has been jacing it up at the sill,

i never use the sill as a jacking point even if the factor fitted one,

i spoze its my expereance with the britian's finnest rust buckets (AU** TIN WORM 1100's )

i think it would be best to just cut it out and fabricate as you go,

thats all being it aint gone all up the inner sill to,

and yes it is within 30cm of seat belt/suspension mounttings,
so definetly MOT failiure

regards malcolm

HDI Dave · Unread post by **HDI Dave** » 12 May 2010, 14:06

CitroJim wrote: Fire up the MIG Dave!!!

I would Jim, if,
a.) I had one..and
b.) Out of all my fixing/bodging skills, welding is one of my poorest

I've only ever used an electric stick (arc?) welder.Bought it new 10 years ago to repair a landrover chassis..which was too far gone..it literally snapped in half when i broke it for spares/ebay! Been sat in the shed ever since.

I can't understand all this rust either. Rear wing,not sure on t'other rear wing,both rear downy bits,(tech term

)behind the rear wheels,both lower doorshuts,on the inside are rusting,doors are fine...i think the rest of the sills are ok,it's just the o/s,drivers front sill that's goosed,and the front wing where it meets the sill.
Sure it was fine last year.Small patches in the engine bay. I can't see all these panels having to be replaced in the past,surely? Would have thought if it was damaged somehow that bad it would have been written off..I think it was a fleet/rental car early on (178,000 on it now). Don't know of any early insurance details,immersion etc..i'll ask my mate if he knows any history.
My mate(who i bought it from),is a bit of a purist.He used to steam clean everything..maybe this has taken some protection off? I prefer to oil everything!

Hmm,this one's gonna be a real headache.
I'm friendly with a local scrap merchant,who does welding as well. Think i'll nip over one day and get a price..although welding jobs seem costly.

Best clean my shed/workshop up,(been diy ing with wood,shavings everywhere!), and get practicing on the old welder. I'm sure it's just the outer sill,which isn't structural?
Strangely i quite fancy cutting it out and fabricating it myself,job satisfaction etc..but i'm not daft,i know my limits.I'll investigate further at the weekend,scratch my head,have a brew,etc lol,gotta laugh or you'd cry sometimes!

*edit - "and yes it is within 30cm of seat belt/suspension mounttings,
so definetly MOT failiure "
Malcolm, it's the front of the sill,are you thinking it's a picture of the rear sill,or is it still 30cm from the seat belt area?
Cheers all,Dave.

davetherave · Unread post by **davetherave** » 12 May 2010, 14:11

gotta laugh or you'd cry sometimes!

I know the feeling!

I'm sure it's just the outer sill,which isn't structural?

Despite it not being structural it is a fail as its within 30cm of something that is structural.

And practice with the welder, but dont try and arc weld it, you WILL have a large hole lol.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 12 May 2010, 15:19

Citroenmad wrote:
CitroJim wrote: I do wonder if the older MK1s are better made/protected than the late MK2s...
I think thats true with Xms too actually. S1s seem to stand up to rust better than S2s. Maybe Citroen went through a bad phase of rust protection.

This has rung VERY true with Both Xantia and XM's..

apart from the encouraged rust in the cills on XM's from thick tyre fitters, they do seem to hold better on the floor pan.. The BEST XM Years are from around 1993 to 1994 thats K to M reg cars in the UK..

Series 2 XM's have been poor especially on the strut tops, some of the worst tops Ive seen have been on R to V reg cars!! (1997 to 1999)

This is also true on Xantias, the common area seems to be on the leading edge of the rear wheel arch to Cill meeting point, when you open the back doors...

Series 1 cars dont go here, but S2's go very badly.. also is various other places.. notable Ive seen on the top of the drain channels just forward of the rear lamp lens's..

The S1 weakness seems to be the rear wing panel, it comes through from underneath outward right in the middle.. Ive got this happening on NON Sunroof cars either, so Im not convinced its a SR drain pipe either.

It seems to be the area were the rear wheel arch on the underside meets with the outer Wing panel, when the car's being built.. again, my 1993 L reg Xantia has not got it.. SR equipt too, were as my P reg V6 non SR, has gone a bit.. Also a S2 W reg car starting to go here too..

So there seems to be a non consistant pattern, but the same areas..

Paul