C5 Estate - Convert Hydractive 3 to 3+?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6916
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone)
x 1369

C5 Estate - Convert Hydractive 3 to 3+?

Post by Paul-R »

My C5 is only Hydractive 3 - which seems to be the only option for the HDi engined estate - and I have wondered about converting to 3+.

I'm not about to rush into this as the car is running reasonably at the moment but if I have to replace a sphere, or whatever, I've wondered whether the upgrade might be possible and what is involved. Would I be right in thinking that I have to replace the four existing spheres and add a fifth (somewhere!), add the extra pipework, change the centre console switch and then change the setup in the BSI with a Lexia.

Sounds simple doesn't it? Are there any pitfalls? The actual hardware isn't a problem as I bought an HPi Estate with 3+ for breaking and I can take what I want off it.

Feasible or forget it?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
KevMayer
Posts: 1051
Joined: 12 Sep 2003, 22:01
Location: Staffordshire, United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 2

Post by KevMayer »

It would be easier to buy a C5 with 3+ fitted.

The 3+ system has 6 spheres where there are 3 on each axle. The 3 system has 2 spheres per axle.

The middle sphere of the 3+ is switched in and out via an electrovalve which is controlled by the suspension ECU. The ECU relies on steering wheel angle sensors etc.

It would be a big big job. Not really possible for a DIY job.
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
wheeler
Posts: 6847
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 717

Post by wheeler »

I would forget it.
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6916
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone)
x 1369

Post by Paul-R »

KevMayer wrote:It would be easier to buy a C5 with 3+ fitted.
Not possible as they don't seem to have made HDis with 3+.
KevMayer wrote: The 3+ system has 6 spheres where there are 3 on each axle. The 3 system has 2 spheres per axle.

The middle sphere of the 3+ is switched in and out via an electrovalve which is controlled by the suspension ECU. The ECU relies on steering wheel angle sensors etc.
Oops, 6 not 5. The steering wheel sensor angles are already measured for the ASR/ESW.
KevMayer wrote:It would be a big big job. Not really possible for a DIY job.
It was one of those idle moment thoughts. I'd only ever consider it if I had to change a sphere anyway.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
cachaciero
Posts: 1407
Joined: 13 Apr 2009, 07:24
Location: West Sussex U.K
My Cars:
x 9

Post by cachaciero »

Paul-R wrote:
KevMayer wrote:It would be easier to buy a C5 with 3+ fitted.
Not possible as they don't seem to have made HDis with 3+.

.
3 or 3+ is nothing to do with engine type but trim level e.g all Exclusive trim level will have 3+.

As regards conversion there are two types of steering angle sensor if you havn't got the right one thats a new COM unit .. loads of dosh. and I suspect that that the BHI ECU would require re-programming.

FWIW I have 3+ and it always stays in 3 which is already too firm for my liking.


Is it possible? probably if you have the time tools knowledge and skills anythings possible but is it worth it?... No! Sell what you have and go and buy an Exclusive trim version

cachaciero
2006 Toyota Prius T Spirit
2001 2.2 C5 Exclusive SE
1996 XM 2.1 TD Auto VSX
1995 XM 2.1 TD Auto SX died @ 140K
1987 CX 2.5 Gti Turbo II dead
1984 Ford Scorpio
1981 CX 2.4 Pallas Auto
Renault 21
1220 GS Club
Rover P6 2000TC
JohnD
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2632
Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 23:41
Location: Epsom, Surrey
My Cars: 2010 Citroen C5-X7 tourer
1998 Citroen Saxo 1.5D
2018 Citroen C4-B7
1998 Peugeot 306. 1.9D
2011 Citroen C1
x 72
Contact:

Post by JohnD »

cachaciero wrote:
3 or 3+ is nothing to do with engine type but trim level e.g all Exclusive trim level will have 3+.


My Exclusive doesn't have a 'sport' button!
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
Citroenmad
Posts: 8125
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 22:08
Location: Northeast
My Cars: 07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
x 110

Post by Citroenmad »

cachaciero wrote:
Paul-R wrote:
KevMayer wrote:It would be easier to buy a C5 with 3+ fitted.
Not possible as they don't seem to have made HDis with 3+.

.
3 or 3+ is nothing to do with engine type but trim level e.g all Exclusive trim level will have 3+.

cachaciero
No, thats not true, its totally engine dependant. If all Exclusive models had H3+ then Paul R would already have this on his car.

In S1 every 2.2HDi has got H3+, even in SX trim level.
No 2.0HDi 90/110 has ever had H3+, not even in Exclusive trim.

I dont think the 2.0 16V petrol had it either? But the HPI engine c5 did.

Facelift C5s are the same, i dont think 2.0 138 HDIs got H3+ even in exclusive trim?

Yes, the new germanic C5 does have hydractive on all exclusive trims, as well with the autos i do believe. but thats about it.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
logiclee
Posts: 43
Joined: 01 May 2010, 21:34
Location: Notts, UK
My Cars:

Post by logiclee »

Citroenmad wrote:
Yes, the new germanic C5 does have hydractive on all exclusive trims, as well with the autos i do believe. but thats about it.
Yep that's correct all Exclusive models and all Automatic models of the new C5 get 3+, the rest get coil springs.

Cheers
Lee
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6916
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone)
x 1369

Post by Paul-R »

Well I'm sorry to to started such a potentially divisive subject!

I've no idea why the 2.0 HDi was deemed unsuitable but there it is. I'm not convinced that the com2000 is different but even if it is, there's one on the donor car.
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
Citroenmad
Posts: 8125
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 22:08
Location: Northeast
My Cars: 07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
x 110

Post by Citroenmad »

I dont think the comms2000 unit is different.

I dont think it was so much that the 2.0hdi was deemed unsuitable for H3+ but probably to cut costs of production, cost of the purchase price of the car and maybe improve the suspensions reliability and reduce future repair costs.

Much in the same way basic new C5s now dont even have hydraulic suspension. Reduces costs, reduces complications and was said to appeal to more people, especially fleet buyers.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
cachaciero
Posts: 1407
Joined: 13 Apr 2009, 07:24
Location: West Sussex U.K
My Cars:
x 9

Post by cachaciero »

Citroenmad wrote:
cachaciero wrote:
Paul-R wrote: Not possible as they don't seem to have made HDis with 3+.

.
3 or 3+ is nothing to do with engine type but trim level e.g all Exclusive trim level will have 3+.

cachaciero
No, thats not true, its totally engine dependant. If all Exclusive models had H3+ then Paul R would already have this on his car.

In S1 every 2.2HDi has got H3+, even in SX trim level.
No 2.0HDi 90/110 has ever had H3+, not even in Exclusive trim.

I dont think the 2.0 16V petrol had it either? But the HPI engine c5 did.

Facelift C5s are the same, i dont think 2.0 138 HDIs got H3+ even in exclusive trim?

Yes, the new germanic C5 does have hydractive on all exclusive trims, as well with the autos i do believe. but thats about it.
I stand well corrected, but pauls original statement was all HDi's which as I have a 2.2 with H3+ plainly wasn't true :-)
I guess then if one want's a 2.0 ltr with H3+ it's probably easier to get a 2.2 and swap the engine :-)

On the latest C5's is that hydractive 3 or 3+ ?

cachaciero
2006 Toyota Prius T Spirit
2001 2.2 C5 Exclusive SE
1996 XM 2.1 TD Auto VSX
1995 XM 2.1 TD Auto SX died @ 140K
1987 CX 2.5 Gti Turbo II dead
1984 Ford Scorpio
1981 CX 2.4 Pallas Auto
Renault 21
1220 GS Club
Rover P6 2000TC
User avatar
Paul-R
Donor 2023
Posts: 6916
Joined: 07 May 2009, 16:24
Location: Wirral, NW England; Vaucluse 84, France
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: 2015 1.6 Blue HDi 120 Peugeot 308 Active SW
2013 2.0 HDi 163 C5 Exclusive Tourer
2003 2.0 HDi 110 C5 Exclusive Estate (Gone)
2001 2.0 HDi 90 Xsara Estate (Gone)
x 1369

Post by Paul-R »

When I said HDi originally I completely forgot about the 2.2 so I must add my apology for that as well!

Until one of my spheres goes that's it I reckon. 155k on the clock, what is the general life of these things?
As I get older I think a lot about the hereafter - I go into a room and then wonder what I'm here after.

Inside every old person is a young person wondering what the hell happened.

"Trying is the first step towards failure" ~ Homer J Simpson​
Post Reply