Are all automatic gearboxes cr*p???

R9UKE · Unread post by **R9UKE** » 07 May 2010, 16:58

Hi,

This should attract some interesting opinions

OK so I am going to be buying a Renault Avantime this autumn, and have been back and forward about the idea of an automatic version. I think this gearbox is more suited to the character of the Avantime, however, most of my experiences with automatic gearboxes have not been good:

My Vel Satis has developed a sharp jolt everytime the lever is put into D.
The Volvo I have at the minute refuses to go any higher than third gear (and no, it is not a 3 speed auto).
We had a 1993 Ford Mondeo Ghia that used to randomly drop into 2nd at motorway speeds and nearly kill everyone.
My aunt has a Grand Scénic 2.0 Auto which has recently been recalled for essential gearbox repair (costing Renault over £1000).
My other aunt had a 2001 Mégane Cabriolet in Hong Kong which has been scrapped due to auto gearbox giving up.
A family friend has rejected her new Fiat Grande Punto as the auto. gearbox failed twice within 500 miles (She now has a C3 Sensodrive).

As you can see it's a wonder I haven't been put off automatics all together. In fact, my Citroen C5 V6 was the only trouble free auto in the family for a long time! (Well done Citroen).

Any views?

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 07 May 2010, 18:42

not after they have been citrojim'ed,

regards malcolm

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 07 May 2010, 19:00

I love my autobox... I love autos generally although I still enjoy a good manual too

Interesting what you say about problems.

My experience only extends to the ZF 4HP20 and I know a lot about those

Let me be the first to tell you the autobox in the C5 is one of those and they are not completely trouble-free. In fact I expect the autobox in the Avantime will be a 4HP20 if it has the L7 V6 engine.

No idea what 'box is in the Vel Satis but if that may be the 4HP20 too; depends on what engine is fitted.

The 4HP20 is a great and strong 'box but it has a big weakness. An internal oil filter that clogs at around 120 - 150K (if the sealed-for life mantra is observed) and then kills the 'box. The kill can be expensive.

However they are rebuildable and on a DIY basis as well

An autobox, when matched to a big engine is a delight and the gearbox of choice for long journeys. It is lovely to get in, slip the lever in D and just go, simply using the accelerator to determine speed and progress. It's relaxing and you'll arrive at your destination fresher.

A good autobox is also surprisingly fuel efficient too. A 3.0 V6 and 4HP20 is remarkably frugal on a run..

So, go for an auto. You won't regret it. Just look for evidence of regular fluid changes and beware that if you look at a high-milege vehicle with a 4HP20, the time-bomb may already be ticking...

hirsty · Unread post by **hirsty** » 07 May 2010, 19:06

Like you Jim, I love the relaxed driving an auto-box gives. My AL4 has done 154k miles and since a recent oil change is really smooth. My work Seat TD is fine until you try to find somewhere you're not familiar with. At least with the auto you don't end up in the wrong gear driving everybody behind you nuts.

Keith

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 07 May 2010, 22:09

Hi

Some cars suite an auto box and some are meant to be a manual you would not, for instance, buy an automatic TVR, thats just crazy talk.
Another thing you have to remember is that an autobox is a complicated 'option' and us such will be more prone to failure and require more care than the average tractors.....sorry i meant Manual...gearbox. If you get A/C as an option and after 5 years the pump or evap goes up the shute i wouldnt be telling anyone who would listen the A/C is rubbish because its not.
The more buttons are on a car the more chance you have of one of them breaking its that simple.

Good luck with whatever you choose anyway

D

jgra1 · Unread post by **jgra1** » 07 May 2010, 23:12

I love my auto hp20

it's my second car with this box.. it doesn't always exactly liase with me on it's intentions, but the many miles of simply effortless motoring far outway this.. it gets me into a bad habit of one-handed driving

but it deals with the many jams in the the UK..
It suits the long legged 406 V6 tourer well ..

I do need a manual alongside, the bike[s] sort me out

i drove my xantia TD last night and I was working the stick ! a lot

for not too much fun

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 08 May 2010, 00:13

I have to answer the question as posed, with "No". As someone who regularly enough does 800+ miles in a day, much on B roads or less, the combination of auto and cruise is unbeatable; it's a licence saver, too.

Trainman · Unread post by **Trainman** » 08 May 2010, 09:33

CitroJim wrote:I love my autobox... I love autos generally although I still enjoy a good manual too

An autobox, when matched to a big engine is a delight and the gearbox of choice for long journeys. It is lovely to get in, slip the lever in D and just go, simply using the accelerator to determine speed and progress. It's relaxing and you'll arrive at your destination fresher.

I couldn't agree more Jim, having had the C5 2.2 and now the C6 2.7

R9UKE · Unread post by **R9UKE** » 08 May 2010, 20:07

Wow, overwhelming response favouring Autos! And yes, there are some very good arguments. I will keeping the Mégane anyway, which is a 2.0 Manual, so it's not as if I'd be waving goodbye to the stick

And I intend to buy an Avantime off a real enthusiast, who will have no doubt serviced it when needed.

CitroJim - thanks for sharing your knowledge, nice to know that the V6 won't always be a drinker, I intend to use the Avantime for mainly motorway miles (my commutes to England) and keep the Mégane for urban driving. And should the worst happen, I will be looking to your expertise

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 08 May 2010, 21:12

Ive driven a few autos, though i wouldnt own one out of choice now. Too many problems, and with a modern car (especially a renault) the less things to go wrong the better!

Our 2.5TDi VW auto has given endless hassle recently, its recently cost around £2000 to have fixed and is now how it should be again. Had it been a manual it would be nicer to drive (i dont like its 5 speed auto box) better on fuel, quicker and wouldnt have needed the money spending on it.

Maunals every single time for me.

I loved the automatic Xm, though it was mainly because it was nice to get into an automatic car every now and then and it didnt do many miles. But for a daily car an auto would drive me round the twist.

Talk to an EGS Picasso owner, thats if they arent all sat in dealer forecourts, its a really odd box, no creeping, bad changes. I know two people who have had them and swapped them for something else after 6 months.

What im trying to say is some autos are better than others, both for reliability and drive, so best try out what a automatic Avantime is like, though not easy to find. You might prefer the drive, but if it goes wrong it will be expensive, time consuming and inconvenient.

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 09 May 2010, 13:44

Had 3 automatic cars … no problems ever.
Manual cars … a lot of problems with synchronisers, clutches and clutch/gear cables and rods.
Driving a manual car is operating a machine, while automatics glide along.

joan33987 · Unread post by **joan33987** » 09 May 2010, 17:21

Deanxm wrote:
Some cars suite an auto box and some are meant to be a manual you would not, for instance, buy an automatic TVR, thats just crazy talk.

D

I agree with that. But I think it also highly depends on how you are going to use your car. I love automatics, when I drove my manual Clio for the first few months, I started to miss my dad's Mitsubishi Space Wagon automatic. It is so peaceful and smooth to drive it, no more clunky gear changes (not the manual's fault, it's just my bad skills and laziness). BUT....
if I took the Mitsu for a sunday thrash around the hills, it obviously isn't good enough, it frequently hops between gears when you move between flooring it and part throttle, which is quite annoying.

If you do "sunday "thrashes" , then i think you should go for manual. But if you admit that you're old like me and think you had enough, then automatic. btw i'm 21.

R9UKE · Unread post by **R9UKE** » 09 May 2010, 22:30

If you do "sunday "thrashes" , then i think you should go for manual. But if you admit that you're old like me and think you had enough, then automatic. btw i'm 21.

Ha ha, well the Mégane is great fun for a sunday thrash, so the Avantime can be the cruiser

Oh and Citroenmad, I can relate to what you say about the EGS. I've had personal experience of the Sensodrive gearbox which is apalling for any kind of driver enjoyment.

Citroenmad · Unread post by **Citroenmad** » 10 May 2010, 09:06

Ive never had to replace a clutch, gearbox or anything of the sort with a manual gearbox. We have had a few autos and only one has gone wrong.

Yes autos are fantastic cruisers, great for lazy driving and for relaxing.

If you have another car too then you would have the best of both worlds. Cant beat a nice drive on a sunday! My C5 was throwing wobblers yesterday, so very tempted by the match idea (why dont you get a box of matches as standard with C5s?) at the moment, so i had to go in something else. Had a very enjoyable drive in the Xm, which does drive a lot better and a C5.

R9UKE · Unread post by **R9UKE** » 10 May 2010, 20:16

Every french car has it's bad day! All adds to the character ha ha.

The button on the door handle to lock my Mégane has stopped working, so I have to actually press the button on the Renault Card arrrggghhh!!

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