More stalling...(Xantia)

Sully · Unread post by **Sully** » 21 May 2003, 14:09

Hi there.
Recently purchased '93 Xantia 1.6, 90K miles, otherwise sweet as a nut.
The car warms up (say 20-30 mins running), then it may stall when it gets to, say, traffic lights (not so bad) or a junction or roundabout (very scary). The steering seems to tighten up as this happens. It basically happens when slowing down.
It will instantly start again sweet as a button on the first key-turn after this.
My guess is it has to be electrical. But which bit??
Any similar experiences? Any solutions?
One garage said the fuel-pump solenoid was dicky, another scoffed at this idea.
I'm perplexed. It's scary stalling in such traffic situations.
TIA,
Sully

Sully · Unread post by **Sully** » 21 May 2003, 14:23

Me again,
My dearest beloved just phoned me up to say it's happened again, this time after 15 minutes running.
I've since spoken to 2 other garages and they've said different (but connected)things : one said fuel-pump relay switch; t'other said blocked fuel lines or dodgy pump.
It'd be good to hear from anyone having had this experience, before I get the spanners out, as - like most people - I'm short on time and can't particularly afford a garage !
Cheers,
S.

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 21 May 2003, 20:44

Hmmm....
Xantia 1.6 '93...
That's basically a '93BX16 in a new bodyshell, as far as engine & hydraulics goes.
90Kmiles is a fairly low mileage for a 10y old car.
Steering tightens up just BEFORE stalling - maybe this is the lead to the problem ??
Steering would allways immediately tighten up AFTER engine stall, on these basic models, since the PAS servo relies on the huge pressure flow directly from the pump & PAS flow divider (FD) valve. The regulator & main accumulator sphere is not involved in the PAS servo - directly, & therefore will not give you any spare pressure for servo.
What happens with the engine idling in your driveway ??
Does it behave - or would it stall under this condition too ??
Can turning the steering wheel make the engine stall ??
If so - this points to an FD valve overhaul - likely after 10y's.
The FD valve is known to be a bugger, capable of overloading the pump, which again overloads the engine at idle rev's.
Since the engine happily re-starts immediately, it would be a time waister trying to look for any noticeable problems in fuel & ignition systems - the problem disappears immediately after a short engine rest.

MW · Unread post by MW » 21 May 2003, 21:21

My 1.8i 16v Xantia (1995, 86K) went through a phase of stalling at idling revs last year. Sometimes five times in the space of a single car park. And, as you say, very scary in some road situations.
In my case, it seemed to be down to too much slack in the throttle cable! The cable on the injection models ends on a sort of pulley wheel that sits on top of the fuel injector, and there was a good inch and a quarter of slack before the cable took up the strain and turned the wheel. As far as I could see, this was the closest that the Xantia injection engine actually gets to having a throttle stop!
Anyway, I did a quick adjustment of the cable at this point (a stupid little adjustable plastic collar thing), which cured the stalling. I then took it into my dealer for a quick Krypton tune, which found nothing else amiss with the setup.
And, er, that's where the situation remains today, 8000 miles later. I don't suppose your 1.6 has injection, but if you've got as much slack in the cable as I had, it might be worth tightening it a bit.
Just a thought, anyway.

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 21 May 2003, 22:51

Have you got a carburettor or fuel injection? If you have a carburettor its worth checking ALL the breather hoses carefully. Some may have restrictors in them - (a lump of plastic with a calibrated hole in it pushed down the tube - certainly Renault practice) and all are probably a little past their best and not fitting as well as when new.
The carburettors are very prone to problems caused by leaks in the crankcase ventilation system and this can upset the idling mixture - which would show up when you release the throttle.
jeremy

alexx · Unread post by **alexx** » 22 May 2003, 12:03

Jeremy, there are no Xantias with carburettor. Xantia 1.6 is equipped with Magneti Marelli fuel injection.

Sully · Unread post by **Sully** » 23 May 2003, 15:12

Thanks for advice,
The 1.6, as Alexx stated, is injection only.
Answering AndersDK points:
The engine is fine and behaves in the driveway,and turning the steering wheel causes no obvious problems.
The steering tightening does happen immeadiately after a stall - I didn't realise that the regulator/accumulator were not involved in the PAS system.
AS to MW's point:
I hope this is the cause !
The car is out with my dearest beloved at the moment - I'll check if there's any excess throttle-cable slack when she returns this evening, and report back.
What amount of slack do you think is acceptable ? Or should there be NO slack at all ?
Cheers,
S.

Unread post by **alan s** » 23 May 2003, 16:03

Just an idea, have you thought of putting a bottle of injector cleaner through it? (Redex or similar) in case it's just a matter of the injector nozzles getting a bit clogged up.
To set the accelerator cable, I usually just pull the plastic bit out until the inner cable's taut without moving the quadrent thing that the cable goes around before attaching to the butterfly shaft & then slip the wire retaining clip over to hold it. Ideally, I like to see it just stopping the butterfly from leaning on itself as it were whilst going fully open at the other end. I bought a "gutless" CX a couple of years ago that performed like I'd added a couple of more cylinders once I adjusted that cable retainer.
Alan S

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 23 May 2003, 16:07

When adjusting the throttle the important part is to make sure you don't strain the cable or anything else when the pedal is on the floor. If the cable is like the BX/ZX cable the pedal connection is a push in device with 2 plastic wings which sprin open when the cable is fitted to retain it. If the cable is strained - the wings break off with the inevietable results. Should this happen I have heard of people screwing a nut straight on to the nylon to get them home.
An excessively tight cable will also damage the engine end - what ever it is, by subjecting it to excessive force and used to be a contrbutory factor in throttle spindle wear.
So to adjust the cable, romove the hairpin clip, put your wife in the car with her foot hard down on the accelerator, pull back the outer part of the cable to expose the adjuster rings and put the clip in the tightest one eposed - then no damage can occur!
Sorr about accusing you of having a carburrettor on this car - I was misled by Anders saying it was essentially the same as a late BX and forgot they had throttle body fuel injection (which in fact amounts to an electronic carburrettor) It is probably still worth checking the vent pipes - especially if any communicate with the inlet manifold on the engine side of the throttle as an air leak there would still interfere with the mixture.
Oh well - I learn something every day! [:}]
Jeremy

MW · Unread post by MW » 05 Jun 2003, 23:24

Just out of curiosity, Sully, did you get the stalling sorted?

drdog · Unread post by **drdog** » 18 Jun 2003, 21:40

I reckon the fault is the throttle bypass valve stepper motor - I had/have a similar problem on my car.
Two independant sources said the same thing [ie the above] - one was a ciroen specalist ["We change two a week - common fault"] and the other source was a friend who does lots of work on fuel injection systems.
We took it off and cleaned the motor out and so far so good
cheers
Kevin

natace1972 · Unread post by **natace1972** » 21 Jun 2003, 18:24

id just like to say thanks to drdog as i had the same probs with stalling and just cleaned the bypass moter and so far mines stoped stalling hopfully it will stay that way cheers drdog i owe u one
cheers nat

roypch · Unread post by **roypch** » 11 Sep 2005, 02:01

sorry to bring up this topic again !
My 1994 xantia 1.9 td went for an MOT last week. Previsouly i did tinker with the the idle speed/fast idle and the idle speed was close to 900 rpm (becz of the cold start device is not working). Car failed in the MOT diesel smoke test. It was close to 1.0 last year. this time it is over 5.0 (cut off being 3.5 for turbo i am told). After much discussion our friendly tester/assistant did something to the pump (they turned something 'down' they said) and then the emission is now below 0.4 and I got the MOT.
Although i am happy with the MOT result

, this car is suddenly acting like a tired cow pulling a cart. At roundabouts i have to floor the accelerator and still it will move like an ant. Two days ago engine suddenly switched off at roundabouts - not always but happens at least once in my trip.
I also noticed that when i pull the accelerator cable with finger at the pump lever end - nothing happens for a while and then only engine revs up.
Since i am scared of the car stalling at roundabouts, i keep an eye on the rpm counter and noticed that sometimes the rpm counter is going well below 400 when i take my feet off the accelerator to change gear - may be this is what resulted in the dangerous stalling at roundabouts ?
Any suggestion/advice on this will be highly appreciated.
Roy - 1994 Xantia 1.9TD

kafkaian · Unread post by **kafkaian** » 11 Sep 2005, 02:39

<blockquote id="quote"><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica" id="quote">quote:<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"><i>Originally posted by MW</i>

My 1.8i 16v Xantia (1995, 86K) went through a phase of stalling at idling revs last year. Sometimes five times in the space of a single car park. And, as you say, very scary in some road situations.
In my case, it seemed to be down to too much slack in the throttle cable! The cable on the injection models ends on a sort of pulley wheel that sits on top of the fuel injector, and there was a good inch and a quarter of slack before the cable took up the strain and turned the wheel. As far as I could see, this was the closest that the Xantia injection engine actually gets to having a throttle stop!
Anyway, I did a quick adjustment of the cable at this point (a stupid little adjustable plastic collar thing), which cured the stalling. I then took it into my dealer for a quick Krypton tune, which found nothing else amiss with the setup.
And, er, that's where the situation remains today, 8000 miles later. I don't suppose your 1.6 has injection, but if you've got as much slack in the cable as I had, it might be worth tightening it a bit.
Just a thought, anyway.<hr height="1" noshade id="quote"></blockquote id="quote"></font id="quote">
Ditto MW (1.8 16V SX 97). I didn't bother with any cables but changed the sparks, battery (almost dry[:I]) and got the injectors cleaned after a no-start in freezing cold weather and ever since, no problem.
This problem has happened to me about 5 times in as many years but never immediately reappeared once re-started - most baffling.

roypch · Unread post by **roypch** » 11 Sep 2005, 03:26

Hi again !
I was wondering whether i can just remove the slack in the accelerator cable - make it just tight enough at the idle speed position - using the clip like item - so that when i release accelerator pedal rpm won't drop suddenly to below 800 range ?
cheers