Anyone experienced with HDi injectors?

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 26 Mar 2010, 13:36

Hi,

Well, thanks to coastline taxis, I tried doing another online scrapyard request for an injector to replace number 2 injector in my C3 with the very high leak-off rate. I'd tried such requests before but no joy so had given up. Coastline taxis saying that scrappies must have C3s in by now made me think there was no harm in trying again, and I'm glad I did because I got 4 responses and all for the correct Delphi EJBR01001Z type. Bought one as the price was so very reasonable and within our budget limits.

They've actually sent EJBR01001A but from what I can tell, the Z suffix is just a new reference for the A type, and they confirmed that it'd come from an identical C3 with the same engine. One website is selling the Z type as a replacement for EJBR01001 ending in A or Z...

So, I've got the tools ready to do the job and can't wait to see if this helps make the car better! It'll probably be next weekend I do it as busy with home DIY at the minute.

Just wondered if anyone has experience with these pencil injectors before I do the job, as this used one is a bit on the dirty side with carbon on the nozzle. Apparently it's not advised to touch or clean the nozzle, but leave well alone. I suppose it'd be inadvisable to even try some carb cleaner on the nozzle to clean it off a bit? Can't see any holes in the nozzle, but whether that's carbon or the 0.15mm diameter hole size I don't know. Unfortunately the scrapper didn't cover the nozzle, leak off hole or high pressure connection hole, so bits of carbon grit and gunk have got in meaning I'll have to gently swill to get those bits out. Looks like the high pressure connection has a self-sealing metal disc in it though which should have helped prevent anything getting inside.

I can see why they can be a bugger to remove, and why the scrappie said they had a bit of a time getting this injector out - the end is lightly sprinkled with rust, so I've got my plus gas at the ready when I do the job. I might very gingerly use my fibreglass pen to remove the rust to make it easier to get in. I was surprised at the £10 I had to give Citroen dealer for 4 copper washers (can't buy singly), but the other washers and things were very cheap.

Fingers crossed for a better C3...

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 26 Mar 2010, 20:17

Right, so far Ive not had to remove 1400 HDi injectors, despite two in our family ownership..

I have done 2.oi 8v Hdi injectors, and 2.2 16v Injecotrs..

The 2.oi 8v injectors do come out fine..

Firstly, my top tip, warm the engine up FIRST, this will expand metals, and soften and carbon that could have leaked past the Tip..
My second advice replace the plastic sleeve and fire proof copper washer on the injector.. Apparently, these "Pencil" injectors are not screwed in, but simply "Secured" inplace with a clamp just to the side of each injector..

Be Prepared for High pressure line Diesel leaks when you put the lot back together, Ive got away with it by that extra "Nip" with the spanner...

I cant help you more, like I said Ive not done 1400 HDi engines yet, but just assuming the design and construction is similar..

Paul

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 27 Mar 2010, 01:55

Thanks for those tips, I'll make sure to use them. These injectors are indeed secured by a clamp which locates over two studs and secured by nuts. Haynes says to use new nuts after removal, so I've bought them too, which were also cheap. Already got a bag of copper fire washers, plus other washers and seals recommended by Haynes to be replaced.

I'm going to use the original HP pipes to the injectors despite apparently having to replace them if they're disturbed. Mick from this forum told me over the 'phone that you can re-use them but to be ever so careful about over-tightening because they're useless after that. I'll do them gently and if there's a leak, I'll nip it up slightly.

Have you found these pencil injectors to be as delicate as claimed? And do you bother trying to clean the nozzles of carbon deposits or leave them be?

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 27 Mar 2010, 02:56

If the nozzle is exposed in the combustion area, it's got to be reasonably tough. I think dire warnings are basically to stop people scrubbing away with Scotchbrite or similar. Holding the injector with orifice pointing down and gently "hosing down" with carb cleaner, can't be likely to hurt it.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 27 Mar 2010, 08:57

JamesQB wrote:
Have you found these pencil injectors to be as delicate as claimed? And do you bother trying to clean the nozzles of carbon deposits or leave them be?

Not really, as addo says they are "Directly" in the combustion chamber, so they have to with stand fairly high combustion, and ignition, so I wouldn't have thought they be that delicate.

I didn't bother cleaning them. Use a cleaning addivitve instead.

Paul

dieselnutjob · Unread post by **dieselnutjob** » 27 Mar 2010, 10:40

the main thing I've found with the older HDIs is getting the seat in the head clean where the copper washer seals the injector into the head, and using new washers.
If you don't do this then it's difficult to get get it to seal.
My methods is to get wrap kitchen paper round a flat screwdriver and then fold the end over to cover the blade, then stick it down there and twist it round. Keep repeating till it comes out clean.
I assume similar techniques work with the newer 1.4 and 1.6

wheeler · Unread post by **wheeler** » 28 Mar 2010, 21:33

It's very impprtant to get the seats properly clean or you'll be doing the job again in a few days. There is a special tool for doing it properly.

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 11 Apr 2010, 19:05

Thanks all, I took note of all advice and successfully fitted the replacement injector. The rattling noise has now gone, but it still smokes a lot although is easier to start. If anything it smokes more now.

I wanted to ask, for those who have swapped HDi injectors in any Citroen car, have you got your own Lexia to program them in, or taken it to the dealer to do? And have you driven the car before getting the new C2i codes inputted and if so, what was it like before and after programming?

Of course, it may only be Delphi injectors which have this tolerance-type code which needs programming into the ECU and so no-one has experience of it, but just in case I though I'd ask.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 11 Apr 2010, 21:48

The injectors dont need programming in! (I dont think)

I know this from experiance of converting a HDi 90 engine in a 110.. ONLY by swapping over the Inlet manifold and turbo...

The pump and injectors never got touched! The car has performed perfectly since.

Paul

wheeler · Unread post by **wheeler** » 12 Apr 2010, 08:54

The injectors on this engine/injection system (Delphi C6 ?) definitely do need to be individually programed into the ECU. Some of the newer HDi's are the same.
There is a 16 digit alphanumeric code on the injector body which must be programed into the ECU for each injector for the coresponding cylinder (bearing in mind cylinder 1 is at the gearbox end). The engine will still run with incorrectly programmed injectors but certainly wont run at it's best as it wont be injecting the correct amount of fuel which is quite critical on HDi's.

JamesQB · Unread post by **JamesQB** » 12 Apr 2010, 18:01

Yep, it's the C6 system and as I've got the manual, I know they need coding in. I just wondered if anyone knew just how badly affected the running would be by just one not being coded in, due to the car being better at starting now (6 turns of the engine - not great but much better) but still smoking and actually running far worse, trying to stall and no power whatsoever. It's off-road for now as virtually undriveable.

Of course, one has to assume the simplest thing - the injector needs coding. And when finances allow, that'll be done. Until then I'm not gonna worry about it. Just was curious if anyone knew more about the consequences.