Xantia Forte HDI 2000 Suspension Problem

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billlew
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Xantia Forte HDI 2000 Suspension Problem

Post by billlew »

I have the above car which had the accumulator sphere replaced about 6 weeks ago, at the same time the "wotsit" which attaches to the sphere was also replaced. In the last 10 days, as soon as the engine is switched off, within seconds the front suspension is right down. When firing up again it takes 60 to 90 seconds for the warning light to go off. IF I then drive off it bounces very hard on the front for a further 15/20 secs. When engine runs it seems to be OK on the suspension, bounces OK under hand pressure.
Do I just need the front spheres changing? Or is it likely to be connected to the accumulator sphere & "wotsit" change.
Any hints/help or suggestions much appreciated.
Thanks
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Bill and welcome to the forum :D

I, for one, am at a loss to work out what the "wotsit" is :?

It would help us enormously if we knew precisely what it was.

A front sink like this is unusual. I presure the back stays up as normal.

The anti-sink valve should prevent the front sinking but there are several reasons why the front might sink. One is obviously a fault in the anti-sink valve (which is rare), second is a height corrector fault and the third is a condition which prevents the timely closure of the anti-sink valve and that could be connected with the accumulator and the pressure regulator behind it.

60 to 90 seconds is a long time to take to build pressure.

First question is this: does the front height correct properly under loading. I.e. if you sit on the front slam panel and the car sinks down, does it height correct after 30 seconds or so?

My feeling is that whoever changed the accumulator and the "wotsit" has done something wrong...
Jim

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Old-Guy
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Post by Old-Guy »

Jim - My immediate reaction was "wotsit" = regulator. I agree that Bill's symptoms don't sem to make sense.

However, let's start with a couple of basics:

1. Is the fluid level in the reservoir correct - with engine running, put height control in rear-most position and wait for car to rise to full height. This should take no longer than 20 seconds and suspension should then have no travel. The float on the reservoir should be between the two marks - if necessary top up slowly (with LHM ONLY!) until the float is just below the top mark.

2. Do a thorough session of 'Citarobics'.

What results?
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1995 Xantia Estate SX 1.9TD in Vert Vega "The Green Lady" - after 11 years now owned by XanTom
1998 Xantia 2.1 VXD Estate in Mauritius Blue - R.I.P. (terminal tin-worm)
billlew
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Post by billlew »

The wotsit is the cylinder like thing that is attached to the accumulator sphere. Is this the regulator?

I've done the Citrarobics thing, when going from high to low the front drops within 15/20 secs, then the rear catches up 30/40 secs later with the front rising a little then settling hard down. When going from low to high the rear goes up in about 20 secs with the front taking approx 60 secs longer to go hard up.

Checked the level & the indicator is above the mark by 10mm or so & doesn't move when doing the Citrarobics. When putting my index finger in reservoir on high it covers my nail. Could the indicator be jammed or having looked at my bill for accumulator & regulator? change, been charged for 2 1/2 litres of LHM, has the garage overfilled it.

Thanks for replies.
Bill
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Post by lefgrter »

I had the same symptoms.. After a week i saw it was the front strut.
For a week i had no external leak, only immediate sink :shock: after that it started to leak badly and loose LHM.
When it sinks try to hear a hissssss noise from the struts
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Post by CitroJim »

lefgrter wrote:I had the same symptoms.. After a week i saw it was the front strut.
Lefteris, that is a very strong possibility what is wrong here. Well spotted. In fact, how the anti-sink works, the only things in circuit once the valve closes is the strut, it's sphere and the pipework to the anti-sink valve. A leaky pipe or leaky anti-sink valve could cause it but there would be a massive loss of LHM to accompany it.

Strut failure is rare but not unknown. Try pulling the strut gaiters down Bill and see if there is any significant LHM around the piston rod. They should be dry; in fact they get so dry that the pistions need lubricating sometimes to eradicate creaks and jerky rising.

Bill, why did the pressure regulator need replacing? Was the car OK (did not sink) previously?

Another test you can do is to listen for the regulator tick when the engine is idling. From the pressure regulator you should hear regular ticks as it cuts in and out to regulate hydraulic pressure; much like a thermostat.

The ticks should be at least 30s apart. Any faster and it signifies either a flat accumulator sphere or a heavy internal pressure leak.

A bad strut may give itself away by causing a fast tick rate at normal and high height with the tick rate being much longer when the car is on low.

Flat spheres may cause a similar symptom but you'd instantly know because the front would be rock-hard always.
Jim

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billlew
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Post by billlew »

Bill, why did the pressure regulator need replacing? Was the car OK (did not sink) previously?
At the MOT late Jan, it was advised that the accumulator sphere had a leak. I sourced one (with help from this forum) from GSF. When the garage fitted it, they said the regulator was causing the fault/leak and replaced it with a 2nd hand one.

I've used this garage for over 15 years & didn't doubt them but wonder if they've got enough expertise in the hydraulics.
billlew
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Post by billlew »

CitroJim wrote:Hi Bill and welcome to the forum :D

I, for one, am at a loss to work out what the "wotsit" is :?

It would help us enormously if we knew precisely what it was.

A front sink like this is unusual. I presure the back stays up as normal.

The anti-sink valve should prevent the front sinking but there are several reasons why the front might sink. One is obviously a fault in the anti-sink valve (which is rare), second is a height corrector fault and the third is a condition which prevents the timely closure of the anti-sink valve and that could be connected with the accumulator and the pressure regulator behind it.

60 to 90 seconds is a long time to take to build pressure.

First question is this: does the front height correct properly under loading. I.e. if you sit on the front slam panel and the car sinks down, does it height correct after 30 seconds or so?

My feeling is that whoever changed the accumulator and the "wotsit" has done something wrong...
I'll try and answer some of the points:-
The back does indeed stop up as normal.
The front corrects within10/15 secs under load.

I can only hear the tick very occasionly, it certainly isn't cutting in any less than 30 secs.

When going from high to low, there is a slight creaking noise as it lowers.

Over the last 48 hours I've lowered & raised it about 30 times and there has been no tell tale signs of fluid loss on the floor.

Can the LHM guage jam at the top of the dome?

Think I might have to take it to a local citroen specialist & see what he advises.

Thanks again everyone for the replies.
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Bill,

Yes, the LHM level gauge can get stuck at the top. A gentle tap usually sorts it.

A specialist may be a good idea. If you live within reasonable distance, Martin at Pleiades would be a good choice. He is based in Sawtry, Cambs. Just off the A1.

Let us know how it goes on...
Jim

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Post by billlew »

Well 6 weeks on & I feel I'm no nearer to solving the problem. I've had the system flushed & refilled with new fluid. The citroen "expert" thought that when the regulator was fitted it might have dislodged some muck into the system. No change to the sinking.
Next it was deemed the anti-sink valve not working, new one fitted, last week but still sinks down 75% of the time. Height corrector was cleaned & freed off at the same time.
My (non mechanical expertise) thoughts are that it relates to when the accumulator sphere & second hand regulator were replaced as this didn't happen before. Is there any malfunction in either of these two components that could cause this sink?
I'm not sure if this regulator is working as I cannot now hear it cutting in.
Are there any conditions I could put the system under to see if it would cut in?
Any further help/ hints most appreciated.
Thanks
Bill
billlew
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Post by billlew »

lefgrter wrote:I had the same symptoms.. After a week i saw it was the front strut.
For a week i had no external leak, only immediate sink :shock: after that it started to leak badly and loose LHM.
When it sinks try to hear a hissssss noise from the struts
Well done.

Have now changed front strut and the problem appears solved. Suprised that it ran for 7/8 weeks without a leak.

Thanks everybody for input and advice.
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Post by CitroJim »

Excellent news Bill :D
Jim

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