Activa Rams

Unread post by **DHallworth** » 09 Feb 2010, 20:34

Does anyone know who manufactures the Activa rams?

I'm wondering about trying to find out who the manufacturer for Citroen is and trying to get in touch with them directly.

The other thing I wondered is if Citroen fancy doing a deal for a bulk buy on the rams and therefore making them more affordable to Activa owners.

Apart from the leaking return spigots on the rams, has anyone tried to recondition them and put new seals on them?

Finally, does anyone know if normal hydraulic seals are safe to use with LHM?

Thanks

David.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 09 Feb 2010, 20:59

I've a brand, spanking new ram in from of me right now David and there are no marks on it to suggest a manufacturer

In fact, very few marks at all..

Good idea on the bulk buy possibility

I notice on this new rear ram that the rubber sealing ring at the base is very, very soft. It seems to go hard over time.

I'm awaiting some heat-shrink I have on order. Before fitting my new ram, I'm going to try the heat-shrink around the base rubber and see if that will effect a repair..

It may not work but it is worth a shot...

Unread post by **Dommo** » 09 Feb 2010, 21:02

Jim have you ever started to take a front ram apart? We've got my old front ram to the point where you can slide the spigot up and down the ram towards the ram shaft.

Unread post by **DHallworth** » 09 Feb 2010, 21:05

Dommo,

Any chance you could email me some detailed pictures of the ram you've dismantled?

I'm really keen to try and find out what can be done to resurect these rams from the dead rather then everyone having to pay Citroen prices for them.

David.

Unread post by **Dommo** » 09 Feb 2010, 22:27

I will do yep, to be honest though they don't show all that much.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 09 Feb 2010, 22:47

David, I have to suggest there's dubious merit in buying direct from the manufacturer if they couldn't even supply PSA with a satisfactory product in recent times!

To address a couple of other questions you raise - hydraulic oil seals should be fine; the reduced viscosity of LHM compared to some other oil blends might mean that spec'd tolerances are unsuitable (ie; it needs to fit tighter than normal).

As to re-sealing the rams - I believe it's a surface condition (it may be pitting, or shedding a coating, or ground/honed to the wrong surface roughness) or tolerance problem (even too tight, not allowing the seal lip to expand properly) which is causing the leakage. The seal you can see, is the secondary seal - the one which is supposed to seal against operating pressure is deeper in the assembly. Trying to use the secondary seal as a stop against excessive fluid loss, is IMO futile - once the main seal is leaking much it's only going to get worse.

Cheers, Adam.

Unread post by **Dommo** » 09 Feb 2010, 22:56

Adam, are you talking about the gaiter, or the seal inside the gaiter?? This reply is assuming you mean the seal INSIDE the gaiter.

I agree with what you're saying there, but from what we can see with the ram dismantled as far as it is (not very), sealing that outer bit and the return spigot is all that's required to stop outside leakage. The LHM that leaks out of the main seal should be stopped by the seal you see under the gaitor, if it is stopped by that seal then it returns up the return spigot.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 09 Feb 2010, 23:01

Yes, that's correct insofar as I understand the "sectional" view of an Activa ram to be - but if weepage past the primary seal is excessive, you have a buildup of pressure in there and secondary seal failure.

Secondary seal failure is the symptom - not the cause.

Unread post by **Dommo** » 09 Feb 2010, 23:04

That return spigot is positioned such that it returns the weepage passed the primary seal. So in theory any leakage passed that primary seal, if it's stopped by the secondary seal, should go up the return spigot.

Pictures would help you make sense of it. The return spigot is not linked (hydraulically speaking) to the body of the ram, it only returns fluid that gets passed the main seal.

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 09 Feb 2010, 23:07

I was talking about the return to jim a while ago, and mentioned how small the pipe was.
Could it be that if the LHM to be returned is greater than the return pipe can cope with, then pressure would build and could find out routes out, dripping to the floor.

Unread post by **Dommo** » 09 Feb 2010, 23:10

I thought that too Xac. It's one of the only explainations for secondary seal failure to be honest, other than wear on the shaft itself.

Unread post by **DHallworth** » 11 Feb 2010, 01:10

I rang Citroen head office today to enquire as to why the bush had increased in price so dramatically today to be told they don't have access to part numbers and price.

They asked me to call our local dealer to find out the part numbers and prices.

The bush is £96.74 + VAT
The ram is £343.79 + VAT

I know I can get these at trade price from them:

Trade on the bush is £84 + VAT
Trade on the ram is £300 + VAT

I know the parts departments are given quotas to meet each month so when I mentioned doing a bulk order they seemed genuinely interested.

I'm going to go in and ask them for the best price if I ordered 5 rams and the best price if I ordered 10 rams.

Once I have found out what the prices will be I will post back here let people know.

They advised me that anything I wanted to order would need paid for before they could order it so if we get a good enough deal on the rams I am happy to take orders for people and post them out when they arrive but I would need payment for them before the order was placed.

I'll keep everyone up to date with my findings.

David.

XantiaMan · Unread post by **XantiaMan** » 11 Feb 2010, 07:32

Xac wrote:I was talking about the return to jim a while ago, and mentioned how small the pipe was.
Could it be that if the LHM to be returned is greater than the return pipe can cope with, then pressure would build and could find out routes out, dripping to the floor.

Having driven with the pipe off (it popped off) there is very little leakage from this pipe, and low pressure too, its literally a dribble.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 11 Feb 2010, 09:31

Exactly how things should be, with a healthy ram. It's why I was sort of banging my head the other day.

Some sketches are required, perhaps, to illuminate this point to those without a background that makes them think in cross-sections!

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 11 Feb 2010, 09:42

XantiaMan wrote:
Xac wrote:I was talking about the return to jim a while ago, and mentioned how small the pipe was.
Could it be that if the LHM to be returned is greater than the return pipe can cope with, then pressure would build and could find out routes out, dripping to the floor.
Having driven with the pipe off (it popped off) there is very little leakage from this pipe, and low pressure too, its literally a dribble.

Could be blocked inside then?
My understanding of liquids is that they're lazy and will try to escape via the route of lease resistance.
If it's leaking out of the base of the rubber and not out of the spigot, then that suggests that the base of the rubber is easier to get out of than the return spigot.
Could it be that as the rubber deteriorates internally it collapses and restricts the return path?
I'm working in the dark here, having no idea of the internals of that end of the ram.

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