XUD7 Oil filter inserts

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 05 Feb 2010, 19:54

The diagrams I have do not match what is fitted but that is not a surprise or a problem

I have the "upright" oil cooler fitted between block and filter, if I remove it I'm assuming there is no thread behind it ?

I can't risk taking a quick look as I'd expect to find a seal behind the cooler and it will not go back without leakage (and would be a bad idea to re-use it anyway)

I'm also wondering (as last time I went to the scrapyard and looked at a N/A XUD without a cooler fitted, there was no easy way to remove the threaded insert (apart from finding two nuts to screw together to remove it)

Any thoughts (a pic would be good)

, I have this although its not ideal...

That's not the same my cooler is vertical due to lack of space...

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 05 Feb 2010, 20:46

Hi Andy,

Yes, I'd expect a threaded hollow bolt would hold the cooler in place and yes, no threaded part in the block. That would unscrew as part and parcel of the oil cooler securing bolt. I confess I've never had one off but that would be how I'd assume it to be and certainly was the case with a similar cooler fitted to a Turbo Metro.

The seal between the block and cooler would be a standard oil filter seal and one could be taken from a new oil filter.

Tow nuts locked together should extract the threaded bit from a non-cooler block but finding the right size nuts night be a job. Again, the plates from two old oil filters should do the job with a bit of metal bashing.

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 05 Feb 2010, 21:00

Thanks Jim

There's not any around the scrapyard with the "upright" filter for me to whip one off for a closer look ( incase I break something

)

Good plan regarding using internals from two old filters, I actually have two.

Mine does not have that "fork" retainer (I know it was not fitted on the earlier ones anyway and was added later to stop them unscrewing from the block with tight filters) , as its a bit different in design and has a small bolt underneath to secure it.

Your thoughts have helped me though, thanks

falling-out-with-my-car · 05 Feb 2010, 23:12

spider I took one of these of my BX years ago it is a threaded hollow bolt exposed once you remove the oil filter,
comes out easily with a ring spanner or long socket I think I used a standard sized plug socket, the block has a steel threaded sleve sweated in place to take the threaded hollow bolt.

the seal is made of cork and will reseal itself no worries apply some gasket goo to the seal before putting it back. there is a smoothed ring cast on the engine block to take the seal you could turn the old seal around before reseating it, it will expand with engine heat anyway. dont do it up to tight when you put it back gently does it and the filter goes in only hand tight on the top or you will twist the cooler behind the filter damaging the cooler pipes. a little oil on the filter seal and gently does it.

be very careful with the oil cooler connection pipes they are only pressed steel more like tin really they used to solder the connections on now they are only pressed in place and not to clever as I say be careful or you will find you need a new unit.& they are hard to find. at the time Citroen wanted £80 for a new one.

regards Nigel

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 06 Feb 2010, 11:17

Thanks

Yes, I'll have to have a closer look.

There is no danger of my cooler unscrewing as its not the design in that picture (despite that being the one apparently!) , as mine is vertical and has a bolt or two holding it place (where the bolts for the "fork" would normally go)

On that note, the filter thread is vertical too, so I need to see what's behind it.

I'll probably take a closer look when I get chance.

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 06 Feb 2010, 13:39

Couple of pictures to show the assembly, you`ll see what I mean about it not being able to "twist" due to the design of it, its solidly bolted to the block

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 06 Feb 2010, 21:38

Sure that's not a 283 Chevy?

Anyway - you'll probably find two O-ring grooves once the adaptor is released.

I'm not clear on why it needs removing.

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 07 Feb 2010, 10:42

addo wrote:I'm not clear on why it needs removing.

I was hoping to avoid saying why

, but here we go...

The cooler is leaking a bit, I have actually used one hose from a XU9 Pug Partner van as it was easier to obtain which I thought was leaking (it has cured most of it)

I'm giving serious thought to doing away with the cooler to be honest as:

(1) I don't cane it so I doubt the cooling will be that important (someone please correct me if I am wrong)
(2) The N/A's did not have one.
(3) The normal horizonal one will not fit due to the radiator being in the way
(4) I can then use the "top hat" thermostat housing (I have one without the cooler hoses outlet)
(5) I think if the "upright" coolers are available still they will be a lot of money
(6) The oil filter will be more friendly to change in a more natural position

Any thought appreciated.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 07 Feb 2010, 10:56

Andy, the oil in a TD is used to cool the piston crowns and the block has jets designed to squirt oil under the crowns for this purpose.

TDs, unlike the NA, can run very high crown temperatures and this oil cooling is therefore pretty essential for long life. Diesel engine designers go to great lengths with the design of oil cooled pistons to get the temperatures to reasonable figures.

Excessive crown temperatures can lead to the top ring loosing it's seal and a subsequent loss of compression. The piton top ring land can also suffer damage.

I reckon therefore the cooler is pretty essential..

You're right though, they are expensive...

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 07 Feb 2010, 12:04

Thanks Jim.

I was aware the turbo engines had cooling jets etc.

Time for a re-think then I'd guess.

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 07 Feb 2010, 14:56

You know something just occurred to me, although even some of the early 1.9 N/A did not have the cooler, they seemed to get one pretty quick...

So I guess they did indeed deem it essential to have them where possible (possible conrod snappage due to over heating maybe?)

xmexclusive · Unread post by **xmexclusive** » 07 Feb 2010, 18:22

Hi

2.5TD XM's have a very similar right angle bracket with vertical oil cooler and filter at the front of the engine. The oil coolers are unique alloy construction and prone to failure letting oil into the coolant. At over £400 a time for a replacement cooler there are a few 2.5's running with the cooler bypassed. Ran one of mine like that for nearly 2 years without problems.
If you do need to bypass the cooler on a temporary basis then it might be worth fitting a physically larger oil filter to increase the aircooling of the oil.
A Purflux LS880A (PSA1109S7orS8) will fit on a 1.9 hollow stud and has at least 50% more oil capacity. These filters are current fit for XM 2.5TD's and V6's and have the same sealing ring diameter as well as common fixing thread.

John

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 07 Feb 2010, 18:31

xmexclusive wrote:These filters are current fit for XM 2.5TD's and V6's.

..And the ES9 PR V6 as fitted to the late XMs, Xantia and 406 amongst others. Those might be a tad easier to ask for/get...

I have seen PR V6s fitted with a standard XU oil filter and I shudder, especially when you have an oil temperature gauge and see what oil temperature they can achieve on a hot day with welly applied...

spider · Unread post by **spider** » 07 Feb 2010, 19:26

Trouble with a bigger filter is the length of it. The cooler is upright as you cannot fit the normal one and the filter as it will hit the radiator.

A thought occurred to me about the oil cooler assembly off the 1.9GTI, although doing things like that is probably going a step too far.

I'll get it sorted I'm sure one way or another

xmexclusive · Unread post by **xmexclusive** » 07 Feb 2010, 19:42

The LS880A filter is a larger diameter but not much longer than the standard XU filter. It is the 2.5/V6 original fit filter (Purflux LS520C) that is both larger diameter and much longer. Even greater air cooling surface area from these though I appreciate that space to fit might be a real problem.

John