New owner a lot of problems Updated

lefgrter · Unread post by **lefgrter** » 10 Jan 2010, 19:08

Hi to all.
First of all excuse my language, as it is not my native one.
A month ago I bought a Xantia Activa MK2 2.0l turbo.
2 days ago I received a clone of lexia3 from HK and I installed the v45 software.
And now the problems that I have with the car.

1. The suspension is always working in the hard mode. The switch is not seem to work at all (the light is not on).
If I open a door I can hear the valves and sometimes it switches in to soft mode for about 30 seconds (sometimes the back of the car sits or jump when I open the door)
I did the diode mod, I put 3 new VN05N chips in the ECU just to be sure. Before and after the mods the lexia cant communicate with the suspension ECU. (but it can communicate with all the other systems of the car) The message that displays is “no dialogue with suspension ECU during initialization” any ideas why this is happening?
How can I reset the faults if I cant communicate with the ECU?
Is it possible that the problem is in the Chinese lexia? But if the problem is in lexia why is working with every other system?
I don’t know but it seems that a blue relay is missing from the engine’s fuse box (The third one located far from the fuses. Is that normal?)

2. The Activa system seems to work better when I am turning right!!

3. The airbag light stays on all the time. I soldered the cables under the front seats so I fixed the pre- tensioners fault.
The problem is that I have 4 permanent faults… something about drivers and passengers module trigger open circuit, seat belt trigger open circuit and airbag light open circuit. Next I will remove the airbag ECU to check it.

4. The ABS always work when the car is coming to stop (speed below 5km/h) (No faults with lexia) I believe that my vehicle speed sensor is not working. During the diagnostic check of the engine’s ECU the indication of the vehicle speed was always <5kph. Where is this sensor located?

5. the steering wheel is heavy at idle but is almost ok at higher revs. The HP pump is not leaking and all the hoses are new and the belt tensioner seems to be ok. I really don’t know what to do. How possible Is the pump to be “tired”?

6. All 10 spheres are new

7. And a minor engine problem (The turbo is working 1 bar over boost and constantly 0,9bar) the problem is that sometimes, when I suddenly push the accelerator and the engine revs low (about 2100rpm) as soon as the turbo pressure gets high and the car start to accelerate fast, the engine cuts out for a moment 1-2 times and accelerate again..

8. last problem is that the engine is idling most of the time at 1500rpm

Ahhhh and the noisy rear ram..

I will be more than happy if anyone can help…

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 10 Jan 2010, 20:33

Hello lefgrtr and welcome to the forum

You have asked a lot of questions!

Suspension: Follow the Activa Buyers Guide to determine and identify faults exactly. It will help diagnose many suspension problems.

I only have Lexia 2 and it never fails to read a Hydractive ECU. I have no experience of the HK clones of Lexia 3 but others on here have them and maybe they can comment.

Again, the buyers guide will help identify why it works better when turning right. I suspect stiffness or wear in the Activa Roll Corrector linkages. Does the car lean to one side or the other or is it level?

Not sure on the airbag faults. I am not too familiar with the MK2 as all mine are MK1 (before 1998) and they do not have the same airbag system.

If the speedometer is working normally then the speed sensor is OK. Does the Lexia record any ABS faults? It is normal for the Lexia to say speed is <5KPH enen when stopped.

HP pumps can get "tired" over time. I would empty the old LHM (especially if it is yellow or brown, indicating it is worn out) and flush the system with "Hydraflush" to give it a good clean before refilling with new LHM. Also, clean the LHM filters inside the LHM reservoir before blaming the pump for the heavy steering. These can get badly blocked and are often overlooked when servicing.

The engine problems may be linked. Sounds like you have a manifold air leak causing excess air to enter and artificially increasing idle speed. Have you carried out an Idle Control Valve actuator test on the Lexia? Sometimes the valve sticks and an actuator test will free it off.

Do you have the standard boost regulator or has a manual boost valve been fitted? Also, check the pipe to the turbo wastegate actuator. These rot and perish and let in air over time. Does Lexia show any faults and does the boost regulator work correctly on an actuator test?

A noisy rear ram is a common problem caused by wear in the lower ram bush. They cost much money from Citroen but a substitute can be made from nylon on a lathe.

I hope that helps as a beginning to resolving your problems

Do you live in the UK?

Deanxm · Unread post by **Deanxm** » 10 Jan 2010, 20:37

Hi

Regarding the lexia not being able to 'talk' to the hydractive ecu, im sure there is a few power feeds to the ecu not just one and if one goes down then this can cause problems with diagnostics and sometimes ecu operation.

D

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 10 Jan 2010, 20:52

Re the airbag problem is the passenger airbag turned on via the switch down by the suspension height control lever?

lefgrter · Unread post by **lefgrter** » 10 Jan 2010, 21:17

Hi thanks for your replies.

Re the airbag problem is the passenger airbag turned on via the switch down by the suspension height control lever?

Where is that switch? I don't see any switces there.

Regarding the lexia not being able to 'talk' to the hydractive ecu, im sure there is a few power feeds to the ecu not just one and if one goes down then this can cause problems with diagnostics and sometimes ecu operation.

So how can i find out the faulty feed? all the fuses are ok

If the speedometer is working normally then the speed sensor is OK. Does the Lexia record any ABS faults? It is normal for the Lexia to say speed is <5KPH enen when stopped.

The ABS is error free according to lexia. The the speed shown to lexia is <5HPH even if the car's speed is 50kph. If the sensor is ok then what should be the problem with the ABS.

Do you live in the UK?

I live in Greece

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 10 Jan 2010, 21:40

lefgrter wrote:Hi thanks for your replies.
Re the airbag problem is the passenger airbag turned on via the switch down by the suspension height control lever?
Where is that switch? I don't see any switces there.

Your Greek Xantia may be different from UK cars which have a switch just in front of the suspension height lever, to turn it on/off you need to insert the ignition key into the switch.

lefgrter wrote:I live in Greece

Purely out of interest, whereabouts in Greece? With the cold weather we're having in the UK I'm already looking forward to our family holiday to Kos this summer 8)

lefgrter · Unread post by **lefgrter** » 10 Jan 2010, 22:10

Curentlly am living in Antiparos a very small island of cyclades near Paros Island.
Today we had 21 degrees celsius!!!

lefgrter · Unread post by **lefgrter** » 12 Jan 2010, 15:58

I have done some checks according to the following suspension ECU connector diagram that is almost identical to Activa one.
White connector

1 Electrovalve front
2 Electrovalve rear
3 -
4 -
5 Diagnostic socket
6 Boot light switch
7 Door switches
8 Ground
9 Activa electrovalve
10 -
11 Speed sensor
12 Suspension mode switch
13 Steering wheel sensor
14 Sport mode light on dash
15 Ground

Black connector

1 Unswitched feed (Fuse 8 in engine fusebox)
2 Unswitched feed (Fuse 8 in engine fusebox)
3 Accelerator pedal potentiometer
4 Accelerator pedal potentiometer
5 Ignition switch feed (Fuse 3)
6 -
7 -
8 -
9 Steering wheel sensor
10 Steering wheel sensor
11 Brake pressure switch
12 Accelerator pedal potentiometer
13 Body movement sensor
14 Body movement sensor
15 Steering wheel sensor

The pin5 of the black/Green connector from the ignition gives me 0,3 - 0,5 volts when on (All fuses are ok). Is that normal?

The pin 14 (someone told me that is for the suspension ECU) of the car diag is not connected to the pin 5 of the white connector (checked with ohmmeter). In fact pin14 is not connected to any of the pins of the ecu pins. Do you believe that this is the problem?

I opened the lexia (clone) connector and found that the pin5 of the socket is free. The lexia connector has 15 cables to all other pins (except pin5) I tested the pin5 of the car diag and saw that has continuity to pin8, 15, 1, 2, 9 of the white ecu connector. What is pin5 of the car diag for? Ground perhaps?

Does any one has the connector diagram of the diagnostic socket?

lefgrter · Unread post by **lefgrter** » 13 Jan 2010, 16:14

Hi again

I had some interesting results that I want to share with you.
I fed the pin5 (ignition switch with 12v) then I connected a cable from pin5 (Disgnostic to Lexia Pin14). OYaou.... The ECU was readable again...
Permanent faults :
a. steering wheel sensor
b. accelerator pedal potentiometer

But that’s not all... When I measured the parameters of the ECU (Driving the car up to 100Km/h) found the following:
a. Body sensor always shows +000 steps (probably not working)
b. Sport / normal switch always in sport mode (Not working and the light is always off)
c. Brake pedal at first is working but a minute later is shown always pressed!
d. doors/boot OK (something working) but the boot switch seems always closed.( I don’t care much)
e. And last but not least... Vehicle speed was 0 KM/h

The odd thing about it is that the ECU is that the car was constantly in soft mode (probably because the speed was read as 0km/h)
The speedometer is working normally and the abs is reading speed OK from its sensors.
I can imagine that somewhere the cables are cut and that they don’t give any signals to the ECU (That’s why the only faults that I have is steering and accelerator.) Am I right?
The next thing I must do is follow the harness from the ECU to anywhere is going and check its state.

The airbag system is finally ok Some WD40 solved the open circuits faults.

I hope to bring the car back to life again and then share with the forum my experiences.
Regards
Lefteris

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 13 Jan 2010, 16:58

Hi Lefteris.

Good work, although I couldn't claim to understand it all.

I have problems with the brake pedal sensor on mine. Seems to stick 'Pressed' intermittently. Some claim that the S2 Activa isn't fitted with a sensor, although the diagrams indicate to me that it was only deleted on regular Hydractive cars. It should store a fault though - the suspension should be Firm for a few minutes once you reach speed. If the pedal status remains Pressed, a permanent fault is recorded and the ECU ignores the output. (This sensor is unrelated to the ABS sensor, which should read as Pressed with a very light touch - the ECU one needs a firm press to switch it).

Raising and lowering the car when parked should get a reading out of the body position sensor if it's working.

It sounds to me like some sort of ECU reset is in order! Perhaps Jim will know exactly how to do that.

James

lefgrter · Unread post by **lefgrter** » 13 Jan 2010, 17:16

Hi thanks for your answer

If the pedal status remains Pressed, a permanent fault is recorded and the ECU ignores the output

Yes but if the speed sensor shows always 0 KM/h then it might not record a fault as the ESU thinks that the car is stopped. Thats why always remains in soft mode.

I dont know what to think....
As you read i had to put 2 wires to the ECU just to read it (The ignition feed and the diagnostic pin5 of the White connector) thats why i am thinking that maybe more cables are NOT ok!

I dont know how to test sensors to see if they are working or not, thats why i am thinking to check the harness.

The car has a brake sensor, since the lexia shows it has....

As for the ABS as i mentioned i have a problem with it, is as it goes into function at very low speeds under 5 kph occasionally. Thats why i think that if the ABS sensors are working but the ABS cant read the actual vehicle speed some problem occurs when the car is coming to a full stop.

L

Sl4yer · Unread post by **Sl4yer** » 13 Jan 2010, 19:26

lefgrter wrote:Yes but if the speed sensor shows always 0 KM/h then it might not record a fault as the ESU thinks that the car is stopped. Thats why always remains in soft mode.

Ha ha! Yes, it is.

The speed sensor should be built into the speedo drive on the gearbox.

James

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 15 Jan 2010, 17:51

lefgrter wrote:I had some interesting results that I want to share with you.
I fed the pin5 (ignition switch with 12v) then I connected a cable from pin5 (Disgnostic to Lexia Pin14). OYaou.... The ECU was readable again...
Permanent faults :
a. steering wheel sensor
b. accelerator pedal potentiometer

But that’s not all... When I measured the parameters of the ECU (Driving the car up to 100Km/h) found the following:
a. Body sensor always shows +000 steps (probably not working)
b. Sport / normal switch always in sport mode (Not working and the light is always off)
c. Brake pedal at first is working but a minute later is shown always pressed!
d. doors/boot OK (something working) but the boot switch seems always closed.( I don’t care much)
e. And last but not least... Vehicle speed was 0 KM/h

The odd thing about it is that the ECU is that the car was constantly in soft mode (probably because the speed was read as 0km/h)
The speedometer is working normally and the abs is reading speed OK from its sensors.
I can imagine that somewhere the cables are cut and that they don’t give any signals to the ECU (That’s why the only faults that I have is steering and accelerator.) Am I right?
The next thing I must do is follow the harness from the ECU to anywhere is going and check its state.

I can't help wondering with what you describe above whether the ECU is from a Series 1 Activa as the ECU's on S1's and S2's are not interchangeable. This may be due to the different diagnostic sockets (S1 was 30 pin, S2 16 pin EOBD shape), in addition the brake pressure sensor isn't fitted to S2 models. Take a look at the date stamped on the side of the ECU, it should be 98 or later.

lefgrter · Unread post by **lefgrter** » 16 Jan 2010, 17:53

I will check that. Thanks
But from what i could see from the lexia test, was a working braking sensor!:?:
the only sensor that seems to work is the brake sensor at least for a while.
And it is working as it should, meaning that it shows that it is pressed when i brake hard and not touch the brake as in ABS testing.
My car is S2 model but the production date is 22/2/98, the first ones...
I dont what to think
Thanks anyway

lefgrter · Unread post by **lefgrter** » 25 Jan 2010, 19:17

Hi again

After a week or so, I have managed to fix some problems.

I managed to adjust the roll correctors and the basic ACTIVA system, mechanically seems to work

The majority of the problems with sensors and diagnosing the HA ECU was fixed with WD40 on the connectors inside the front right wing (Behind the flasher light) see picture. As it seems the inner plastic arc of the wing has a little hole and water from the wheel find the way to the connectors.

After that I managed to diagnose the ECU with the Lexia.

Vehicle speed sensor problem:

Still the vehicle speed sensor is not working. Checked the continuity between the sensor connector and the pin11 of the ECU connector and seems to be OK (Ohmmeter shows 0). The speedometer is working but both ECU’s don’t get the signal.

As a result the suspension is ALWAYS in soft mode…. Yes in this mode the car is a magic carpet…. But dangerous.

Question 1: Is there a way to check the sensor (Probably remove it and attach a hand drill or something like this)? When I removed it seems ok. I have cleaned it but still not working.

ABS Problem:

In very low speeds (Exactly below 5Kph) the Lexia shows that the LHF sensor suddenly drops its reading from 5 to 0 as the other 3 sensors goes from 5 to 4 to 3…2…1…0 KPH until the car stops. There might be the problem.

As I saw the RHF sensor is about 1-2 mm from the wheel Hub (The one with the teeth…. I don’t know if I am using the right expression!), but the LHF sensor is about 3mm.

Question 2 : Is this distance of 3 mm my problem? I am asking that because it seems that this distance is fixed and there is no way to make it go closer to the hub.

Brake problem

Except ABS i have a continuous problem with air in the brake circuit. I have bled the brakes 3 times in a week and the problem is that I CANT bleed them as all I get from the nipples (4 of them) is foamy LHM…. I left them bleeding for 15 minutes (I used a tube and dropped the LHM back in the tank but the foam is still there.

Before that I had the tank and the filters removed and cleaned. When I checked the returns I saw that the first big tube next to the pump feed hose, which is brand new, is always dropping a lot of LHM (not seem to be foamy) back to the tank (I think that this is the steering wheel return). The next 4 tubes are practically “dry” a few drops of LHM. But the last one (closest to the windshield) is leaking a lot of foamy LHM (about 100 ml per minute (and if I press the brake pedal…. A lot more and more foamy).

I can imagine that is a problem with the brake doseur valve.

You can see how foamy it is. the picture was taken when doing citarobics and the car drops. The LHM is so foamy that gets overflowing from the top of the filter

and this is the tube that has the problem

Question 3: Is it possible to have an internal leak in the valve, or maybe something else can do that? I don’t know how to explain so much air in the return hose….

And a few more problems

I still have a stiff steering wheel when car is cold. Maybe the pump is tired…

The warning lights are of in the morning in about 45 seconds, but the car needs a minute more to rise at the front and work in soft mode. As for the rear, maybe it needs five minutes or so to fully rise (Engine at idle). So if I start going in the morning at first the car is soft at the front and hard at the rear end, for the first minutes after that everything is OK

When I do citarobics the car is rise very very slow (about 2 minutes at idle)

Facts

The regulator clicks ever 2 minutes and 20 sec.

The height correctors seems to work.

The rear end rises if I sit in the boot (engine switched off)

Question 4: Is the above showing that I have a pump problem? Or I need to do more tests?

Finally the car has NO external leaks not a drop… It is absolutely dry