How to recover Magic Carpet ride on XM?

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
EdX20
Posts: 10
Joined: 08 Jan 2010, 12:51
Location:
My Cars:

How to recover Magic Carpet ride on XM?

Post by EdX20 »

I know there is lots of discussion on this type of topic, but I'm try to narrow down what the issue is here and so far I'm still not clear.

It's a RHD Series 1 XM, RP 5833 so the diode fix is not applicable.

Suspension used to be lovely. At speed on fast roads the car would float over the bumps, bridge joints, etc., very comfortably. And at low speeds it would be nice, too.

At some point it began to lose the quality, especially at the rear - when hitting bridge joints and pot holes it is very harsh and a lot of shock is transmitted to the car.

I forked out for 7 new spheres recently as most were at least 6 years old and was very disappointed at the small improvement in ride quality. It's probably still better than a steel-sprung car, but a lot poorer than it should be.

Stationary with engine running and doors closed the suspension feels as expected when corners are bounced, softer at the front though. Engine off, doors closed I hear the click after 30 secs and it is then in a harder state.

The car handles very well on twisty roads and generally is fine, but it has lost that Magic Carpet ride.

I cleaned the ECU contacts, I can see the speed sensor can rotate and is connected, but haven't looked at any other sensors yet. The light comes on when I switch to Sport, but I can't say I can notice much difference if any, whereas previously I could most definitely feel the car "relax" when switched to Auto on a fast road. I did once notice the Sport light flicker recently, I can't remember now under what circumstances. Maybe that is a clue, but it's not a recurring feature.

Car goes up and down fine using the height control, nothing untoward there.

I have the excellent "Citroen Guide" by the Hungarian chaps, but is there a troubleshooting guide for Hydractive? Any advice welcome.

Cheers!

Ed
'92 XM 2.1TD Auto SE Estate. Leather, Air, Sunroof, the works! (5833)
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

Hi Ed

'Softer at the front' rings alarm bells, it should be much softer at the back, you should be able to bounce each corner about 6" with new spheres, maybe even more at the back.

If the ride height is correct, you can check this by looking at the rear suspension arms, at normal height they should be about parallel to the road, then either you have a dud centre sphere or they are of the wrong type.

Peter
Deanxm
Posts: 3327
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 17:57
Location: Isle of wight
My Cars: Citroen XM
x 87

Post by Deanxm »

Hi

Start with Peters suggestion first, but if the electrovalve is clicking on and off and buzzing when energized the electrical side of the system may be working, you really need a diagnostic done on the ecu to be sure there isnt a faulty sensor as this will throw the system into bhard mode on the move prematurely.
If this is not the case you have to bear in mind that the electrovalves only open a path of fluid to the slide valve in the hydractive blocks to bring the centre spheres into circuit and give the soft ride, if your pressure regulator isnt holding main supply pressure between 145 to 170 bar then there may not be enough pressure present to open the hydractive valves against suspension pressure, so on bumps the system pressure spikes and becomes greatyer than main supply which slams the valve shut.
Also is your LHM clean? and when was the system last flushed?

D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)

Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
vince
Posts: 1409
Joined: 22 May 2008, 22:29
Location: oldham
My Cars:
x 13

Post by vince »

Hi Ed,

Being a hydractive model, and it being harder at the back, it could be related to a problem with the rear hydractive electrovalve?

The only reason i say this is because i have a 95 Xantia VSX with a similar problem and that seems to be the fault with mine....that and a rear height corrector in need of stripping down and cleaning up :wink:

With mine, the way to ensure a soft ride at the back is to raise and drop the car on the height selector and that seems to do the trick :wink:
1993 Citroen xm 2.1td, silver/grey, bowling ball wheel trims, 210k and climbing...
deian
Posts: 1729
Joined: 26 Feb 2006, 10:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by deian »

who did the 7 spheres? yourself or a garage? and are the correct ones on the back?

a dose of citrobeotics could make sure air is repelled, make sure you open the bleed screw on the lowest setting for a bit, then close and back up, and down and up and down and normal

how long ago was the fluid changed? was it also using hydraflush prior to refilling?

how are the rear bearings on the trailing arms?... check if the wheels are square and not slanting outwards at the bottom, if they are square, then it should be ok, if slanting out, new bearings are needed.
Deanxm
Posts: 3327
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 17:57
Location: Isle of wight
My Cars: Citroen XM
x 87

Post by Deanxm »

Judging by the RP number this could be a H1 car deffinatly a MK1.5 if it is H1 though it only has 1 electrovalve which operates the two hydractive valves remotely via a hydraulic line to each valve, it would be good to know which it is, do you know what model number your ecu is? H1 to H3 ecu's are for hydractive 1, H4 and onwards is hydractive2.

D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)

Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
EdX20
Posts: 10
Joined: 08 Jan 2010, 12:51
Location:
My Cars:

Post by EdX20 »

Thanks guys, I made a list of what to check if/when the rains stops tomorrow. The spheres were from GSF UK and all matched what was ordered and I made sure the mechanic knew which went where. I have to confess I went for the Comfort option thinking that would be even better especially for the estate which I believe is a little harder sprung, before learning that they aren't such a good idea. And so far I'm not getting much comfort from them :)

I've had so many LHM leaks and pipe failures that my green blood has been topped-up/renewed many times in recent years, so I doubt if that would be relevant.

I'm pretty sure it's an S1.5 as it has the silly non-single spoke steering wheel that stops you seeing your switches.

Would any Citroen garage be able to run an electronic diagnosis? Even on a car this age? For some reason I hadn't thought of that, but that could be a simple way to find out. I'd imagine they would fleece me for it though, then scare me a with a big list of what they found.

I definitely don't have 6" of rear bounce so I'll do the aerobics workout and post an update with more info.

Cheers, Ed


[/img]
'92 XM 2.1TD Auto SE Estate. Leather, Air, Sunroof, the works! (5833)
Deanxm
Posts: 3327
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 17:57
Location: Isle of wight
My Cars: Citroen XM
x 87

Post by Deanxm »

If your near a member of this forum who has a lexia then they will go over it for you in exchange for some beer tokens, where are you?
And yes you can get the fault codes read off, its the blue 2pin plug under the ecu cover in the engine bay for the hydractive ecu.

D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)

Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
deian
Posts: 1729
Joined: 26 Feb 2006, 10:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by deian »

EdX20 wrote:Thanks guys, I made a list of what to check if/when the rains stops tomorrow. The spheres were from GSF UK and all matched what was ordered and I made sure the mechanic knew which went where. I have to confess I went for the Comfort option thinking that would be even better especially for the estate which I believe is a little harder sprung, before learning that they aren't such a good idea. And so far I'm not getting much comfort from them :)

I've had so many LHM leaks and pipe failures that my green blood has been topped-up/renewed many times in recent years, so I doubt if that would be relevant.

I'm pretty sure it's an S1.5 as it has the silly non-single spoke steering wheel that stops you seeing your switches.

Would any Citroen garage be able to run an electronic diagnosis? Even on a car this age? For some reason I hadn't thought of that, but that could be a simple way to find out. I'd imagine they would fleece me for it though, then scare me a with a big list of what they found.

I definitely don't have 6" of rear bounce so I'll do the aerobics workout and post an update with more info.

Cheers, Ed


[/img]
Ok your car defo sounds like a series 1.5

sorting out the lhm leaks would also be a good start

estates should have softer suspension than the usual hatchback variant, they don't have the damping holes so would go down easier hence being softer

i still think you need to look at your rear arm bearings
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

Comfort spheres are good on the estate, best ride I have had, cant say the same for the hatch though, very soft at the back on an undulating road, feels like a cross channel ferry - but I wonder if mine are wrong :?

Peter
EdX20
Posts: 10
Joined: 08 Jan 2010, 12:51
Location:
My Cars:

Post by EdX20 »

Aerobics workout - the rear rises first, and descends first. No funny noises or jerks, all 4 settings good. (I didn't undo the bleed thing though, not sure where it is and had good clothes on).

The height looks fine and the rear arm is almost parallel to the ground on normal height, just a bit lower at the front end of the arm. When I sit on the rear it behaves as it should height-wise, and self-levels.

Not 6" of bounce at the rear, more like 2, and very hard, unlike the front, which is more elastic and normal.

Rear wheels look vertical when viewed from behind the car.

ECU has this info on it: 73810502, 12V 43.92, H3 / S2003, so I guess that confirms it's a Hydractive 1.

Only current LHM leak is a very little dribble from the regulator, been like that since I got the car so I'd be surprised if that had anything to do with it.

Duff rear centre sphere is a possibility, or it's not, or not fully, engaging in the circuit when on soft. I did go to Citroen today but I just missed them, they'd already shut.

Any other input welcomed.

Meantime did the bodywork with "Back to Black" (well, cheap Chinese equivalent) and polish, and I took years off it! Restoring the plastic makes all the difference.

I'm in southern Spain so maybe no-one from forum near here with diagnosis tool :)
'92 XM 2.1TD Auto SE Estate. Leather, Air, Sunroof, the works! (5833)
Peter.N.
Moderating Team
Posts: 11563
Joined: 02 Apr 2005, 16:11
Location: Charmouth,Dorset
My Cars: Currently:

C5 X7 VTR + Satnav Hdi estate Silver
C5 X7 VTR + Hdi Estate 2008 Red

In the past: 3, CX td Safaris and about 7, XM td estates. Lovely cars.
x 1199

Post by Peter.N. »

If you get any softening of the rear suspension when in normal mode the valve should be OK, chances are that the centre sphere is flat

Peter
Deanxm
Posts: 3327
Joined: 18 Dec 2008, 17:57
Location: Isle of wight
My Cars: Citroen XM
x 87

Post by Deanxm »

yep i would say rear hydractive sphere at least is flat, doesnt sound like you have an electrical problem and yes you have hydractive 1

D
XM Prestige PRV6 92
Talbot Express Autotrail Chinook 89
Mitsubishi L200 Trojan 14
Xantia Activa 95, sold (missed)

Service Citroen is awesome, it shows me pictures of all the parts i used to be able to buy............
dave m
Posts: 10
Joined: 30 Oct 2009, 17:48
Location: Langley,B.C.Canada
My Cars:

Xantia ride

Post by dave m »

I own a Xantia in Canada,lots of research needed to keep current.Recently I found this site....e crofting....If this product is not snake oil,I believe it may save a ton of needless sphere changes.Does anyone have experience with this gear?,,,,,,,cheers.
addo
Sara Watson's Stalker
Posts: 7098
Joined: 19 Aug 2008, 12:38
Location: NEW South Wales, Australia. I'll show you "Far, far away" ;-)
My Cars: Peugeot 605
Citroën Berlingo
Alfa 147
x 93

Post by addo »

They sell a kit which is for those who don't fancy a complete DIY version of the same process.

Principle is sound, and plenty of people here have done the "diode mod" with and without this kit.
Post Reply