405 Wishbone Bushes

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evilally
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405 Wishbone Bushes

Post by evilally »

My 405 has knackered wishbone bushes. I hear it's a nightmare to fit a new bush to the existing wishbone, and that ideally you need a press. Even then it's not easy.

I spoke to a garage who said it may well be more economical to buy new arms with the bushes prefitted rather than pay them to fit new bushes.

Any tips on fitting new bushes, or places where I can get arms at a reasonable price? Currently I'm looking at £50 a side :?
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
evilally
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Post by evilally »

I've decided to go for new arms and fit them myself. Can anyone suggest a place to get them? I would rather have genuine Peugeot ones, maybe I can get some old stock cheap?
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
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Post by CitroJim »

Yes, they are evil but it's a lot cheaper to replace just the bushes though. Which ones have gone, the "P" bushes or the round pressed-in bushes?

The "P" pushes are easier. You just need a BIG hammer and cold chisel.

The technique to replace them is the same exactly as on the Xantia.
Jim

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evilally
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Post by evilally »

Thanks Jim,

I can't remember, I checked the bush at the back and it had a lot of play. I was just going to replace both while I had it off. I'm struggling to find anywhere that sells genuine arms that don't cost a fortune.

Genuine bushes will cost £50, but I don't know if that does both sides or just one :? When I bought ARB bushes, the pack did both sides.

There seems to be a lot of discussion on Xantia bushes, hopefully that will help when the time comes.
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
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Post by CitroJim »

GSF do (or did) the 405 ones. That's where I got my last lot from. Not expensive either.

If it's the rearmost ones gone, that's the "P" Bushes. I find the front ones rarely go that badly, The "P" bushes fail more regularly.

On the frontmost ones, it's not so much putting new ones in, it's getting the old ones out.

I can suggest several ways, all brutal :lol:
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Post by evilally »

Alright, think I'll have a crack at this then :D GSF are a lot cheaper, did they last ok? Some people say avoid pattern part bushes. Did you replace the nylon lock nuts? If so, where did you get them?
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
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Post by CitroJim »

They appeared to Ally :D The secret to long life is to put them on in the correct alignment. This is critical and the new ones must go on exactly as the old ones came off.

Between you and I, I never replace Nyloc nuts. Just do them up properly tight, keep an eye on them in weekly checks and no worries. I've never had one loosen off in 30 years...
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Post by fastandfurryous »

405 wishbone bushes aren't that hard really. The level of bodgery required to get the old ones out isn't that bad (although I often resort to burning them out, but I'm lazy) and fitting new ones is fairly easy if you have a big hammer, a decent size vice and a selection of spacers etc.

I think I got my last set from my local motor factors for about £20 for a vehicle set.
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Post by CitroJim »

Great to see you on here again fastandfurryous :D :D :D
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evilally
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Post by evilally »

Hi guys, started work on this yesterday. Currently have one wishbone off and the old bushes removed. I have a problem with the P bush. The one that came off has no visible marks, they've probably corroded away. It had also detached from the wishbone so I couldn't tell how it was aligned originally. The pattern part from GSF has no alignment marks on it. As the alignment seems to be very important, how do I get this right? :?
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
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Post by CitroJim »

One way is to compare with the other side and make it a mirror image provided the P bush is more or less intact on that side.

Another way is to consider that at normal ride height, the P bush rubber should be unloaded (in a neutral position) and not twisted to any extent. Trouble is, it is not easy to achieve this as once the new P bush is on, it cannot then be removed.

Otherwise, you'll need to look at another 405 to see the alignment or get hold of a carefully taken picture to show the relationship.

I can do this with a Xantia wishbone but chances are the Xantia alignment will not be the same as on a 405.

Sorry, not really very helpful here am I :(
Jim

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evilally
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Post by evilally »

That's alright Jim, I suspected there wouldn't be an easy way :( I'd like to meet the genius that made this part with no alignment marks :evil:

I'll whip the other side off, and fingers crossed it hasn't seperated. I might also go down to the stealers on Monday on the off chance they have a P bush. Maybe they would let me look at it and copy the markings onto mine.
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
evilally
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Post by evilally »

Fortunately the other side was still attached, and I was able to copy the alignment :) Once I'd figured it out, removing and refitting the bushes was actually easy. I've bashed together a little guide for anyone else facing the same problem, perhaps applicable to other cars.


You need a sturdy vice, a 32mm socket, a 21mm socket, a big hammer, a chissle, a blow torch, a hack saw and an angle grinder. The 32mm socket needs to be deep enough to accommodate the rubber part of the front bush.

Before you start, put the front bushes in the freezer!

Front Bush

Removal
Place the wishbone upright in the vice with the front bush facing towards you, and the P bush at the back. Place the 32mm socket facing in the way in front of the front bush. Place the 21mm socket behind the front bush facing backwards into the bush, and then sandwich the lot in the vice. Do the vice up really tight, the 21mm socket will start to sink into the bush. Heat the outside of the wishbone around the bush with the blow torch, this will start to melt the rubber inside. You should then be able to tighten the vice up a bit more, the bush should start to move forward into the 32mm socket. Repeat a cycle of heating and turning the vice, the bush should move forward a little each time until it comes out into the 32mm socket.

You are now left with the metal sleeve stuck inside the wishbone. Remove the blade from the hack saw and put it through the sleeve and re-attach the saw. You can then cut a groove the whole length of the sleeve. Try and cut it all the way through without damaging the wishbone. Remove the hacksaw. The sleeve has a protruding lip at the rear of the bush, take a hammer and chissle and whack this hard a few times all the way round, it will start to fold inwards. The groove you cut will allow the sleeve to collapse in on itself and it should come out easily. The first sleeve I did came out after only 3 whacks.

Refitting
I used some fine sandpaper and WD40 to clean up the inside before fitting the new bush.

Heat the outside of the wishbone with the blow torch until it's very hot. Take the front bush from the freezer, it should be very cold. I put some copper slip on the outside to lubricate, or some silicon grease might do. Get it started with a couple of bashes with the hammer, and then put it in the vice. Do the vice up as fast as you can as the hot wishbone brings the bush up to temperature very quickly, causing it to expand! The more progress you make in the first few seconds the better. After that it's just a case of some muscle to push it in the rest of the way. You may need to whack the handle of the vice round with the hammer to finish it off.

I did the first wishbone without freezing, it was significantly more difficult, freezing is must. While the bush is cold, it goes in very easily.

Front bush done



"P" Bush
Easy compared to front bush.

Removal
It the bush is still attached, put it in the vice and turn the wishbone a few times until it breaks free. You will be left with the metal sleeve. Cut a groove along this with an angle grinder, trying to cut it all the way through without damaging the wishbone. Then take the hammer and chissle and open the groove to split the sleeve apart. It should then come off easily.

Refitting
I put the bush in a jug of boiling water, but this didn't seem to help any. Use copper slip or silicon grease to aid fitting, and clean the area of the wishbone up with WD40 and fine sandpaper.

It should just be a case of whacking it on a few times with the hammer, taking care of the alignment. On the 405, there should be 254mm between the 2 bushes. Take care not to whack it on too far!

Job's a good 'un
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
evilally
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Post by evilally »

Bugger, something's still clonking :evil: The ARB bushes are also brand new, what's the next most likely cause?
'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

'05 RenaultSport Clio 182 Cup, 102k

'97 406 1.9TD, 314k.
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Post by mark21td »

About the only thing's left are the ball joint and drop link, the drop links are a nice easy job, so lets hope it's them.
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