Citroen Xantia 1.9td rough running

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Taffyrhys
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Citroen Xantia 1.9td rough running

Post by Taffyrhys »

Just replaced the aux belt, which had stripped out on one side but now its runs rough and sound very rattly from the top end like a bag of nuts and bolts. Once it starts after a lot of cranking its still noisy and lots of black smoke comes out. It still drives but rough and lot more smokey. It sound like it out of sinc or maybe the timming belt has slipped a cog?due to a bit of the aux belt going under the timming belt cover? but would it be able to run like this?

It had a new battery and i replaced the 4 glow plugs with Beru one last month, always serviced by me and engine is in good order.

Has anybody got any ideas? is there any sensors i should check? Can i check the timming without taking the cover off.

cheers.
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Post by deian »

Hi,

there won't be sensors as such, the 1.9td is quite a simple engine, unless you forgot to wire up one of the glow plugs when you changed them, but your theory that the timing belt might be out by a tiny bit could well be the case.

How is it after warming up? If it's still the same i'd say something has caught on one of the timing cogs and it's throwing it out of time. I woulnd't run it for long like that, get it checked out and replaced, along with the tensioners!
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Post by Old-Guy »

If it ran nicely before the belt stripped (which presumably brought you to a halt through no hydraulic pressure), then your idea of a lump of belt causing the timing to jump one tooth sounds the most likely cause. How many degrees and which way depends on which sprocket jumped (crankshaft, camshaft or injection pump).

Unless the belt is fairly new AND UNDAMAGED it looks like cambelt-change time - you'd have to do all of the work just to check the belt and re-time the engine anyway. Don't forget to check the water-pump at the same time and replace it if in any doubt at all.

If you haven't done the job before, there's loads of forum threads on cam-belt changes, a write up on my site (Things you won't find in the BoL), and I think there's a sticky too.

Best of luck.

Guy
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Taffyrhys
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Post by Taffyrhys »

When i replaced the aux belt i did check the timing belt cover and couldn't see any areas it could get in there so a little stumped. Once the cars warm you can rev it harshly except for the rattling and puffs of black smoke. I also went out for a 20 mile journey and except for the puffs of black smoke and a noisy engine was ok.

I also thought the timming for this engines had to be spot on so would it still work with a slipped timming belt?
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Post by CitroJim »

Old-Guy wrote:Unless the belt is fairly new AND UNDAMAGED it looks like cambelt-change time
If the timing has jumped a tooth or two then I'd replace the cambelt as a precaution even if it did look OK. For the cost, it's just not worth it to risk using a second-hand belt.

Invariably though, if it has jumped a tooth then some tooth damage will be evident.
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Post by Taffyrhys »

How much would it cost to change the timming belt at the garage?
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Post by CitroJim »

Taffyrhys wrote:I also thought the timming for this engines had to be spot on so would it still work with a slipped timming belt?
They will still run (poorly) with the cam timing a tooth out and can still run badly with the injection pump timing considerably out.. Any more than a tooth out on the cam though causes pistons to kiss valves.

Despite no apparant damage to the covers, your engine is showing all the symptoms of being mis-timed and a good first job toward solving this issue would be to check it, if only to rule it out.

One other thing that can cause this sort of symptom is a failed needle lift sensor on No.3 injector,. It's the one with the thin black wire running from the top of it. Check it is well connected at its plug and also check it has not gone open-circuit. It should read around 109 ohms. A failed needle lift sensor causes the pump to assume a fully retarded timing.

Is your engine management light on?
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Post by citronut »

the aux drive belt winds its way in around the crank pully kneck,

i have herd they will run with the crank out by 4 teeth,

if its sliped any teeth it will have damaged the belt

regards malcolm
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Post by citroenxm »

Defenatly a tooth out, and is VERY likely with a split Aux belt, covers on place or not it WILL go behind the crank pully.. If your ONLY a tooth out, chances are your valves WILL be ok, but sounds like you need the belt changed ASAP!

The older TD - as long as the Fueling and heater plugs are BOTH in good order should ALWAYS start in less then 4 turns AT THE MOST! IE: so each of 4 pistons have done their TDC..

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Post by Taffyrhys »

The engine management light isn't on but when i went out this afternoon it did smoke alot and was wrattling like a good one. I will check the number 3 injector tomorrow. I'm away for the wekend so its a trip in the misses Corsa :o :o :o :o

I may take this into a garage for the timing belt as it was a mare of a job to do the aux belt due to sieze bolt to pully which i had to drill out.

Cheers
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Post by CitroJim »

Taffyrhys wrote:I'm away for the weekend so its a trip in the misses Corsa :o :o :o :o
You have my sympathies :twisted: I'd rather walk :lol:

A garage is likely to charge in the region of £200. That's a guess as I've never been to a garage in years.

It'll be worth checking the timing before you send it away though. It's a straightforward job but does need the top cambelt covers removing to do it.

Have a great weekend, even if it does mean a trip in a Corsa :D :lol:
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Post by Taffyrhys »

Got my car back and it was a strip of aux belt rapped around the fuelpump, it was lucky the cam belt didn't snap - cost was £185
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Post by deian »

so is it running better now?
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Post by cox377 »

I've had two XUD's with the AUX belt strip, one onf a 406, snapped the cambelt, one on my current xantia, took the cam out a tooth.

COXen
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