What car brand would you buy or not buy other than PSA

deian · Post by **deian** » 26 Dec 2009, 23:21

Hi all, this is not strictly french related but I am still curious.

What other car brands would you buy or not buy other than a citroen/peugeot?

I would like 5 of each. Here are mine:

BUY, Audi, BMW, Toyota, Honda, Saab(old saab, not gm saab)
NOT BUY: Vauxhall, Fiat, Ford, Daewoo, Renault (ewww)

I wouldn't mind an Alfa at some point, but they are closely related to Fiat, and when I say Audi I mean VAG, Volvo 850 T5 onwards are ok, and a Mercedes-Benz, well they never appealed to me until now, I must be maturing as an old man at 28!?

Now your turn...? Thx

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 26 Dec 2009, 23:46

Crazy I know, but I'd buy another Laguna II (early before they spoilt it's looks), or a megane II estate or scenic. Wouldn't go for a 3 door again, too impractical.
Failing that a Dodge Avenger CDI, ok so bits are likely to fall off if you close the door too hard, but nothing else on the market appeals.

Deanxm · Post by **Deanxm** » 27 Dec 2009, 00:09

i think going by manufacturer is too broad for wants

Wants;
Audi Quattro (the propper one)
Catterham 7
Alfa GTV V6
Jaguar XJS (latest model)
Lancia Delta
Renault Alpine
Reliant scimitar
BMW 845

Never ever.................ever!
ford, boring and rusty, even today!
vauxhall not as boring but pretty bad
vag, hairdressers and w*****s cars

D

Featch · Post by **Featch** » 27 Dec 2009, 00:17

Here's a fairly comprehensive list of the cars I've had over the years.

Austin J4 van
VW Beetle
NSU Prinz
Morris Minor Estate
Austin Maxi 1500
Citroen GS Club Estate
Bedford CF Camper Van
Bedford Chevette Van (new)
Renault 9
Citroen CX 2.0 Saloon
Bedford CF LWB Minibus
Alfa Sud 1.4
Alfa GTV 6
Citroen CX 2.4 Pallas
Ford Capri 2.0s
Ford Cortina 2.0 Estate
Ford Fiesta 1.1
Ford Escort 1.3 (new)
Austin J2 Pickup
Bedford CF LWB Van
Citroen CX 2.0 Famialle (new)
Citroen GS Pallas Saloon
Citroen GS Club Estate
Citroen CX 2.4 Saloon
Citroen CX 2.5 D Saloon
Dennis Fire Engine 8.3 Litre V8
VW LT32 Pickup
Ford Transit LWB Van
Citroen CX 2.4 Estate
Diahatsu Domino
Mini 1000
Bedford HA Van
Mercedes 307D Camper Van
Honda Acty Van
Subaru Sumo 4wd Van
MG Maestro 2.0 EFI
Morris Maestro 1.3
Mazda 323 GT
Ford Escort 1.4
Citroen XM 2.0iS
Nissan Bluebird
Peugeot 106
Renault Clio 1.2 (new)
Saab 900 Saloon
Saab 9000 Turbo
Citroen ZX 1.4
Suzuki Swift GLS
Citroen XM 2.0 Exclusive
Citroen ZX 1.9D
Citroen ZX 1.9TD
Citroen Xantia 1.8LX
Renault Megane 1.6 Classic
VW Polo Open Air

I'm sticking to Citroen from now on. I will never buy another Ford or Vauxhall/Bedford.
The Saabs were a disappointment.
The Alfas were brilliant fun but dissolved.

addo · Post by **addo** » 27 Dec 2009, 00:59

Wouldn't mind a Laguna estate! Other than that, a new Alfa. Nissan Stagea, too. No German cars, ever.

I must be maturing as an old man at 28!?

I'm sold on practical features these days, too. Aircon, efficient demisting, good lights/wipers, comfy seats, good soundproofing and decent roadholding. Prefer the thrills to be driver-induced!

Cheers, Adam.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 27 Dec 2009, 01:07

Ok, my top 5 would buys: Sticking with Deans addition, ill list my preffered model too.
- Seat - ive had two and loved them, great looking cars, well built, drive well, and a bit different from other cars in that there are not huge numbers of Seats around. New Leon

- Alfa - stunning cars, ill have to own one at one point. Mito

- Volkswagen - Most models are dull a bit boring to drive but they are well made and classy, offer some good and interesting options sometimes though. The Lupo Gti is fantastic, love those, then there is the slightly more obscure cars like the Passat W8s and the Pheatons. Very nice usually, though the more mundane VWs are not really involving driving cars. Golf Mk5

- Audi - older generation, not newer ones - see below. Up to 2006 are very nice cars. Previous gen A4

- Peugeot - Not quite as well built as Citroens but very good cars, id consider a 407 saloon as a replacement for a C5, really like the front on 407s. Peugeot make some nice cars, ive no idea what they are doing with the 1007 and 4007 but the most Pugs are very nice. (PSA i know but there is nothing else i would buy) 407

My would not buys:
- Renault - top of my list because they hardly ever work, which is a shame as they are actually nice cars just very poorly built. I really like Renaults, almost all look great, the Megane, Laguna2 and the Modus is a fantastic car, just brilliant. However i have heard far too many bad things and non of our renaults have been any where near perfect. I wouldnt have a DCi if i was paid to drive one, Laguna2s are possibly the worst of them all for reliability, even the ford mondeos arnt as bad, which brings me onto my next ..

- Ford - Again, they build good cars ... just badly. They usually handle very well and some look great, id love a puma (yes hairdressers car but they drive fantastically), though they rust badly, i think i can even hear one fizzing in all of this salt right now! Drove a few mondeos recently and was very diassapointed, awful thing, they all rust. Kas are great little cars, really fun to buzz around in but rust ... I had been wondering where all of those mini metros had been going, it seems ford makes their cars out of them!

- Mercedes - i hate these things, again they usually rust so badly (made out of old fords perhaps!) the interiors look ancient when the cars are new and have a really old mans image. I know a few people who insist on buying merc, heavens knows why as they have nothing but problems with them. Rust, expensive engine repairs etc etc. Also id like to know who thought up the idea bout the foglights on modern mercs. When turning or indicating one foglight lights up, not only does this look light you have a bulb out, but also makes you look like a tosser for driving with fogs on in the first place. I mean we manage to turn corners perfectly well without having a foglight coming on! Though i am aware that some Seats now do this.

- Audi - this only relates to the new Audis, as i actually like the older generation. Though new Audis are (i know Clarkson has said this, but he is right!) it seems driven by previous BMW drivers, like idiots. But mainly i find the lights again are stupid. Whats with thiese chav running lights, they look hideous and only the fronts light, i thought it used to be illegal to only show front lights, or some such. Anyway, when indicationg the one on the indicator side squints, what a stupid needless idea. Again its going to be a requirement to have running lights by some year, but if and when, not now please. I know they can be turned off, though most are always on. Also modern Audis are very very ugly things, Q7? New A4, A5 barge, awful.

- Honda & Nissan, i really dont like Jap cars, i think they are soulless, boring, dull, have the most horrific interiors (where do they find so much grey and shiny-ness!). I know they are actually very good cars, reliable and well made but they do nothing for me, nothing at all. Civic Type-Rs, it still looks like a granny car but just one which has visited Halfords too many times. Yuk, no styling on Jap cars in my opinion.

- BMW - Possibly some of the most ugly cars on the road at the moment, i really dont see the point in the very overpriced 1 series, which looks like its already been crashed in the side. Ok its RWD, but how many people buying a small hatch want that? The 3 series is ok, but looks redicoulous with anything other than the largest wheels, even 16/17" makes it look like its on casters. The 5 series is possibly the best looking and i used to like the 7 series before they ruined it. Then there is their badging, it used to be the series number then the engine size, however now a 318 is the lower powered 2.0 petrol and the 320 is the higher power 2.0 petrol, same for diesel etc. Though my main hates are their niche ranges, i do wonder where they get their ideas from, though i do know why no other maker has thought of them before ... The X6, who on earth needs one of those, that IS the most ugly car on the road today, a coupe 4x4 on steroyds, this is a car with no actual dipstick (other than the one who bought it of course), you rely on the internal oil level gauge, these are not always accurate as topgear found out with their long term test X6. The there is the 5 series GT, or whatever it is, its a high riding 5 series which is both a hatchback and a saloon car. I really dont see why anyone needs one of those and im yet to see one, i wonder why ... I mean hatchbacks are the most practical thing, so if its got one why not leave it at that, why would you need a saloon boot and a hatch bootlid all in one. I get the idea of making it look like a saloon but with hatch practicallity, thats a great idea and its what was in mind with the C5 hatch, its a hatchback but has a boot profile not unlike a saloon car, early ones even went without a rear wiper to enphasise the fact more. Anway, BMW make pointless and over priced cars. Usually well made and drive nicely but thats far from everything, especially when the cars look so hideous!

There are my opinions

Sorry for my spelling there, its late.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 27 Dec 2009, 01:21

To be fair, I never had any trouble with my Megane II, lovely engine especially with the 6 speed.
The Laguna before it had a regular "Fuel injection system faulty" issue requiring a reboot (I'm sure MS wrote the ECU) and the turbo blew up, but Renault fixed that even though I was well over the warranty mileage and had been lax on service intervals. Clocked up 76K in 2 years, mostly on motorways, and mostly at "keeping up with traffic" speeds

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 27 Dec 2009, 01:27

We had a MeganeII, bought it at 6 months old from a Renault dealer, we traded it in for a Scenic2 after 2 weeks, yes two weeks. Really horrid thing, it just gave up working. It was a 1.6 petrol and you either set off with loads of tyre smoke or stalled, the brakes were so sensitive you could breath and it would have stopped. I got a few people to drive it and everyone had the same problems. Though i drove other 1.6 meganes which were fine.

The Scenic2 was a 1.9DCi, its 6 speed box was starting to crunch at 20K miles, the MAF went wrong which took the dealer months to diagnose meaning the car was virtually dangerous at getting out of junctions as it was so slow. The clutch was groaning at 22K miles. It scrubbed its rear tyres off quicker than the fronts, the rears lasted 17K miles and the fronts 19K miles, fitted with michelins too. Both were very nice cars, the scenic is a lovely car, but just really badly built. The number of 1.9DCi engines if heard of going badly wrong doesnt really make me think twice about not getting another.

Oh, we also had a 2001 Scenic RX4 2.0 petrol, really good car and never went wrong, but renault didnt fit any brakes to RX4 petrols (diesels are fine), they never improved the brakes from the normal scenic to the 4X4, which ment it just could not do emergency stops, asking anything more than normal braking pressure from the brakes and it had nothing more to give. It sailed through a set of traffic lights one day when it had loads of room to stop, the brake was pressed right down as far as it would go and it just wouldnt stop. The next day we traded it. The renault dealer only admitted that they have problems once we had traded it in.

So no, i wont be buying a renault any time soon. Had i not have heard so many bad press about lagunaIIs id probably have one now.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 27 Dec 2009, 01:46

Funny you should mention scenics, a friend has a 1.6 and despite being regularly serviced by a renault approved garage, they neglected to replace the brake pads or discs when required, resulting in some damage which wasn't covered by warranty. This was discoved when she moved so used a different garage. She then found out that since the last service, the first garage had lost it's renault support and then disappeared over night (Jim probably knows it, the one on the far side of Wolverton).
Renault did pay a considerable amount of the repair costs though.

Another friend has a petrol Laguna II which is apparently possessed. One night it was sat outside his house trying to start itself!

Personally, I'd never pick anything other than diesel (Activa and Xantia V6 excluded).

Dad's Renault 11 had no problems at all up until xmas day in '86 when it was run over by a tipper truck as he drove home from work...

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 27 Dec 2009, 13:15

We had a Rneualt 4 until 2 years ago, it never went wrong, though there was nothing to go wrong! Fantastic little car, wished we still had it now, it was an earlier TL from 72 with the optional full canvass sunroof just like a 2cv.

LagunaIIs suffer badly from turbos blowing, which has some connection to having a blocked up EGR as the turbo overheats. The engines seem to self destruct quite often too. If you look on the renault forums there are cars needing new engines from 30K+, even the people on there wouldnt recommend a laguna ...

The garage i use had a 2005 Megane 1.9DCi in with a bad knocking noise. He striped the engine down and found a bearing had melted and fused to the block. The bearingd on them dont have the little locating pins which stop them from spinning ... Anyway, a replacement engine was sourced from a breakers yard which when fitted had exactly the same problem on the same bearing. So another engine was needed and because the first didnt come with any warranty the owner had to pay out again for the next engine. I think it cost almost £2500 in the end.

Shame as i said, as they are usually nice cars, but id not like to risk one.

I usually only buy diesels too, so if the diesels are not good then they are usless to me.

Also the 1.5DCis are not great, the fuel pumps go wrong sending particles through the engine which ruin it.

We had a Modus for a few wheels as a loan car (when the scenic went wrong) and it was fantastic, little 1.5DCi with the lowest power output. I had the MPG readout over 80MPG when driving very carefully. Fantastic things.

The top service manager at our renault garage once admitted to us that none of their cars are fault free, they all have in built faults which could show themselves. That was enough for me!

Clogzz · Post by **Clogzz** » 27 Dec 2009, 13:15

Buy:
Alfa Romeo
Jaguar
VW
Nissan

Not buy:
BMW
Korean cars
Malaysian cars
Chinese cars … until there’s nothing else left.

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2009, 13:29

Easy one for me..

In my dream garage, in addition to the Double Chevrons in there...

I'd have a Rover P6 3500 V8, an Alfa 166 V6 and an S14 Nissan 200SX.

That'll do me

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2009, 13:30

Oh, and a Jensen Interceptor

Featch · Post by **Featch** » 27 Dec 2009, 13:41

I'd love an NSU RO80. Light years ahead of their time and Citroen were involved in the design, I believe.

Yes Jim, a Jensen Interceptor for me too!

Andy

HDI · Post by **HDI** » 27 Dec 2009, 14:06

Cars need to be viewed objectively. Although brands tend to be identified with their traditional innovations and virtues , unfortunately this is no longer valid in reality , it's just marketing hype.
For example , Mercedes was once thought to be the best engineered car in the world , and it was , but no longer. Alfa Romeo , once really was a car that handled with purity and had a glorious style , now just a fashion object with no substance and wrong wheel drive.

There was once integrity in the car industry , now it's just lifestyle garbage. Most brands are inbred anyway , so the image is just that , an image.

Working on cars in a workshop environment turns the reality lights on.
If your of a sensitive nature , the following may upset you , at the very least burst some bubbles.

From a national perspective the best cars to OWN are Jap. Best production engineering by a country mile , good assembly , good quality , good value for money , best reliability , best durability. Generally they don't have much passion in their design , but passion doesn't last.

Worst to own are German , simply because they promise so much , cost so much but deliver so little. Anyone disagreeing with that is in denial because the hype runs so deep and it cost them so much !! I can tell you some stories about ALL the German brands that would deter you for life , including the 'iconic' Porsche !!

The rest are in the middle. Vauxhall are pants , Ford a bit better , then French , then Malaysian , Korean etc.

For a daily driver I don't really care what I drive as long as it's reliable and has low running costs. My Xantia fills this role really well , I have been fairly pleased with it's general reliability and so far it's looking ok for it's 10 years. They have the advantage that most people are scared of the suspension so purchase price is low compared with it's contemporaries. Looking back I have had more Citroens than anything else so they must be doing something right !!
IMHO daily driver cars are there for a purpose and anyone who spends a large part of their income to own a new car is mad.

One brand I would NEVER own is Vauxhall.

Have had good service also from Peugeot.

BEST car I have EVER owned is my Mitsubishi Evo 6. Quite simply it is an amazing thing and I can't think of anything else I would rather have unless I won the lottery , but even then I would keep it regardless of whatever else I bought. Would treat myself to a Bugatti Type 35 though !!