V6 starting probs

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 04 Dec 2009, 21:40

Xantia V6 MK1 did this about a week ago then ran and started fine . It is just producing that click on trying to start. All lights dim on key turning.The battery in it aint great but has been working ok. It shows 12 volt and drops to 11 when starter key turned. Boosting with a healthy battery and jump leads makes no difference. Just a click from what sounds like o/s front.

When it did it a week ago it just started later that day. I thought maybe it hadn`t been in park. Have checked that out thoroughly this time.

It`s due a battery anyway but seems like a solenoid/immobiliser or starter....maybe ECU?.

Is it possible that it thinks it`s in gear?

Post by **xantia_v6** » 04 Dec 2009, 21:56

If you hear a click when you turn the key, then your immediate problem is the starter.
All 3(!) of the V6 Xantias I own have had a replacement starter or solenoid.

On the one which failed during my ownership, the problem was caused by high resistance in the wiring from the ignition switch to the solenoid, which for a few months caused behaviour as you are describing, but eventually burned out the main contacts in the solenoid.

You could try giving the starter a thump, you can actually get a lump of pipe to it down the LHS of the front manifold. I carried a jack handle in the car for that purpose, but would have been better fixing the wiring.

You could also try (make sure the transmission is in Park) touching a wire direct from the battery onto the little solenoid connection on the starter, to see if the starter is still serviceable.

Both Jim and I have added an extra relay, and I have bypassed the wire from the relay box to the solenoid.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 04 Dec 2009, 22:03

I've heard of this issue with the same solution from a number of sources on the V6 so take Mikes' sound advice.

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 04 Dec 2009, 22:13

Thanks indeed . Will check this out. Is the Solenoid on starter body?sorry I see you mentioned this..... Any instructions or simple drawing to modify wiring appreciated

addo · Post by **addo** » 04 Dec 2009, 22:27

Yes, it's the little cylinder on top of the fat cylinder that together form the starter.

Over time, starter solenoid contacts seem to wear or erode. Eventually, they can't close the gap effectively enough to pass current to the starter motor itself.

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 04 Dec 2009, 22:41

Thanks Addo. It did sound like that old fashioned click /thump of a Solenoid just before engaging of starter but I didn`t trust my rather instant gut feeling with this being a complex beastie.

Post by **CitroJim** » 05 Dec 2009, 06:32

Lexi,

On a MK1 without the headlamp washers, you can do a very neat job of adding the additional relay by using the location normally used by the washer timer relay. Get a spare base with some wiring attached and if you carefully extract wires from the Park inhibit relay base (the pink one next to the spare hole), you can do the mod without cutting any wires at all. You'll need a black 25A relay to complete the mod.

I'll have a look at mine later and detail the exact modification for you.

Since modifying mine, I've not had any problem at all.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 05 Dec 2009, 09:58

Excellent!! The ole PRV note RV not SA, starter problem returns to haunt me!

This is a massive problem on the PRV XM Engines, my 1993 V6 12v had 2 starters, HOWEVER, I found the wireing loom that ran to the starter had all melted away, however, after a re wire, the problem did come back, so in the end useing some PTFE High temp cable from work (ssssshhh dont tell the boss) I put in a DIRECT wire feed from in the car, through a push button to the solinoid, so if the key just clicked, Id push the button and every time away she go!

My young girl (youngest car I have here anyway that I use / Own) has not developed this problem as of yet, so wey hey something to look out for OR even prevent when I get the front off for a re-pipe of the front suspension..

Regards
Paul

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 05 Dec 2009, 10:59

Thanks guys.
But remember........Lexi has as much chance understanding ANY electrics as Alan Sugar has of sitting on the fence

I fitted a relay once and had to take an industrial size pack of Anadin after it......I`m still not right

PRV and PSA ???? Are these Political Partys? Can you explain?.

So Mk1 has the washer jets Jim but no Pump........is that what you mean.?

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 05 Dec 2009, 14:34

Of course I can.

The PRV V6 was the 70's design V6 12v engine that went into the Volvos, Renaults and Peugeots of that eira, it also went into Venturi, Delorean and a few other small quantity production cars..

Its a 90 deg Cylinder Banked design, and it was the only engine Peugeot had of 6 cylinders for Citroen to use in the XM, untill the arrival of, after Volvo pulled out, of the PSA/ Renault V6.. which is of course a 60 deg 24v design, that goes into Peugeot and Citroens, and Renaults..

So there we have the PRV V6 and the PSA V6...

Paul

Post by **myglaren** » 05 Dec 2009, 15:31

PRV is Peugeot-Renault-Volvo.
PSA is Peugeot Société Anonyme.

As Malcolm says, the angle of the cylinder banks differentiates them.

Stempy · Post by **Stempy** » 05 Dec 2009, 15:43

I had to put a new starter motor in mine too as it had the solenoid problem. I had previously stripped and repaired it on two occasions, but third time I decided to get a recon starter.

Also had a problem with a duff start inhibit relay, you can swap it with the aircon one (if you have it) to prove the point.

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 05 Dec 2009, 16:12

Excellent and all very interesting. Aircon relay and solenoid relay Stempy...where are they? I will check out other stuff first like wiring up with a relay.

The solenoid: It can be repaired? or just cleaned? if no luck then it is a whole new starter motor?

I suppose even though starter is a puny lil thing it will be ££££££..as soon as you mention V6

Stempy · Post by **Stempy** » 05 Dec 2009, 16:22

The two relays are in the engine fuse box, they are brown, the aircon one is to the passenger side of the fuses.

Starter was around the £100 for an exchange, came back marked 'rare unit'!

lexi · Post by **lexi** » 05 Dec 2009, 16:55

Right Stempy not too bad a price then.