806 1.9 TD cutting out

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johocomo
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806 1.9 TD cutting out

Post by johocomo »

Hope someone can help. I have recently aquired a 97 806 TD with 76,000 on the clock and a good deal of service history. The car has been standing unused for a while but has been started an run around the block regularly. It starts 1st time with no smoke and runs really sweet. The problem occurs after driving for about 15-20 mins. As soon as I am caught in traffic and the temp rises slightly......it just cuts out & refuses to start !!!!!! If left for 10 mins it will fire up as if nothing had happened and runs fine for another 10 mins or so and then cuts out again. It is symptomatic of running out of diesel or fuel starvation ???? The rise in temp is minimal and no more than you would expect. The fans do not cut in and I have checked for pressure in the system in case of h/gasket failure and all seems normal. I have also replaced the diesel filter and this has made no difference. I have been told ( How true this is i have no idea as i have had several Pug diesels and never come accross it ) that there is a fuel cut of system linked to the thermostat which is located at the bottom of the diesel filter housing ???? which may or may not be faulty. This does sound like a possibility if true...........so my question is has anyone ever heard of this ?????? Or does anyone have any idea what may be at fault as I`m starting to get really pi**ed off because I only get time to attack it at the weekends as it is at a friends house 30 miles away and trying to get it home would take about a week given its running state !!!!!! :evil:
citronut
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Post by citronut »

hi and welcome

i would be good to get it hitched up to a diagnostic machine, there are a few of us on here have LEXIA's which are the citroen dealers tool, and i also have the pug version which is a DIAG 2000, same device diferent software,

depends were the car is to wheather it is viable,

regards malcolm
uncle buck
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Post by uncle buck »

It could be the stop solenoid on the fuel pump, it could be fine when it is cold but as the fuel pump warms up it could be shutting off which would cut the diesel & give you the exact same effect as if you had turned the engine off with the key.

Not sure how hard it would be to change as I'm not sure if your vehicle has a factory immobiliser fitted, if it does getting to the stop solenoid will be a nightmare as it will be shrouded with a steel security shield.


Cheers.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
johocomo
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Post by johocomo »

Hi Uncle Buck,
think you you could be right as had the thing up and running changed the thermostat fuel cut off thingy at the base of the diesel filter housing left it running for ages......fans cut in twice........Prematurely thought "Hooray".........and then it cut out !!!!!! This time I was standing at the front with the bonnet up, the ignition was still on and I could hear a faint "clicking" sound coming from the pump which may well be as you say, the stop valve/solonoid. And just to compound things, yes it does have the immobiliser :cry: so looks like it`s all got to come off :cry:
uncle buck
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Post by uncle buck »

From your description it does sound like it could be the stop solenoid....but it could also be the electrical feed to it....check the wiring carefully to make sure there are no broken wires that could be causing the problem.

I've never had any dealing with the removal of the security shielding on the pump but I read of people removing them on this forum....

Take a look here......

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... p+security


Cheers.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
johocomo
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Post by johocomo »

Hi Uncle Buck,

thanks very much for the "link". Dont suppose you know anything about the feed to the pump and stop solonoid ? Have got 4 wires connected to the pump. One Green & Yellow ( Earth ?) and 3 Grey ? ????. Or anything about where it gets its power from???? ( Relays, sensors etc ) Would like to explore these avenues 1st before getting involved with removing the pump to change the stop valve/solonoid. Also would there be any crankshaft sensors ????
Best regards
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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

That does sound like electronics getting a tad too hot and stopping working; like an ignition coil failing when hot. The discovery that it runs for longer with the bonnet open reinforces this a little as the pump would be running that bit cooler for longer.

The "thermostat" in the bottom of the fuel filter just directs diesel into a labyrinth on the thermostat housing when cold to warm it a bit but I can't imagine how it would fail and stop the engine. It's not electrical in any way.

Before going for the immobiliser/stop solenoid, do check that when it cuts out next time that it is definitely not fuel starvation or an airlock causing the problem. The ticking noise you hear could just be the timing device flailing around due to very low fuel pressure inside the pump although if this were the cause the engine management light would come on.

It's worth checking the fuel return line from the pump back to the tank is fully clear and not blocked. They do sometimes and cause very odd symptoms.

If there is not one there already, replace the fuel line between the filter housing and the pump inlet with a piece of translucent pipe so you can see the fuel flowing. When it next cuts out, a squeeze of the priming bulb will soon show if there is ample fuel reaching the pump.

As for the electrical connections to the pump, I have no circuits that specifically relate to the 806 but I have some ones that are typical. I'll post them up but it would help to know if the car has a keypad immobiliser or the RFID immobiliser (chipped key).

If it is an electronic problem, the bet will be to de-armour the pump and bypass the immobiliser totally as they are pretty much irrepariable really except by swapping whole modules and that is a world of pain.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
uncle buck
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Post by uncle buck »

Hi,
I'm also not familiar with the wires to the pump as I never had a problem with them.

Jim has mad a good observation there...the fact that the engine ran for that bit longer with the bonnet open (pump cooler) but as he also points out, air in the fuel can cause some weird symptoms so it would be best to check that first.

With the engine running get someone to turn it off while from under the bonnet you listen to the click that that the stop solenoid makes so you can familiarise yourself with the noise it makes....you will then know what you are listening for when the engine cuts out.

Jim,
if johocomo knew which one of the wires feeds the power to the stop solenoid would it be ok to temporarily cut the wire & put a 12 volt feed to it ? ....I'm thinking this would eliminate a power to the solenoid problem, as if it still cut out it would prove that the fault wasn't with the original feed to the solenoid.


Cheers.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
johocomo
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Post by johocomo »

Hi fellas,
have already checked there is fuel at the pump by cracking open the fuel feed union on the top of the pump when it cut out.........it was dry ! .....squeezed the hand primer and fuel then flowed ????? Have to admit that I didn`t try turning the engine over to see if fuel flowed as I was on my own and as i`m not a woman I cant multi-task and be in two places at once :D. Thanks for all your help and suggestions i`m sure we`ll get there in the end.............end of what who knows :shock:
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