Automatic transmission Gearbox for a xantia 2.0i 16V, 1998

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citroyiannis
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 13
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:45
Location: Nicosia, Cyprus
My Cars: BX 1.6 TRS 8V 1989 Graphite Grey (Went to scrap)
Xantia 2.0i 16V, 1998 auto, Non Hydractive, Green (stands as donor)
Xantia 2.0i 16V, 2000 auto, Hydractive, White (dove)
C3 1.4 HDI, 2005 sensodrive, Lucia Blue
Xantia 2.0i 16V, 1998 auto, Non Hydractive, White (Haven't name yet)
Xantia 2.0i 8V, 1999 TURBO Activa, Silver Grey (Neil)
Xantia 2.0i 8V, 1999 TURBO Activa, Silver Grey (Heather)

Automatic transmission Gearbox for a xantia 2.0i 16V, 1998

Post by citroyiannis »

Hi there all citroeneans!

My xantia's 2.0i automatic gearbox is out of order. The rear gear stuk permanent.
From the Citroen dealer here in Cyprus, they told me that this could not be fixed and is better to replace it with a new one.
Can anybody to help? Is there any case to fix it (if its fixable)? Can I find in UK a new gearbox, from an indepentent seller, in a good price?

Thanks in advance

Citroyiannis
BX 1.6 TRS 8V '89 Grey
Xantia 2.0i 16V, '00 auto, Hydractive, White (dove)
Xantia 2.0i 16V, '98 auto, Non Hydractive, White
C3 1.4 HDI, '05 sensodrive, Lucia Blue
Xantia 2.0i 8V, '99 TURBO Activa, Silver Grey (Neil)
Xantia 2.0i 8V, '99 TURBO Activa, Silver Grey (Heather)
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2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
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Post by citroenxm »

Holiday for you JIM! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:


Is that the later "ELectronic" gearbox with Sprt on it, or ealryler Mechanical Gearbox?

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
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A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Post by addo »

Paul, that is the AL4 "adaptive automatic" gearbox. For only reverse to work, it means there are probably no solenoids operating.
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Thanks Addo,

Not got any of them spare... just the older box's which ALL work too :D

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim »

addo wrote:Paul, that is the AL4 "adaptive automatic" gearbox. For only reverse to work, it means there are probably no solenoids operating.
Not quite, no electronics will invoke emergency 3rd hydraulic which will give 3rd and reverse only.

That's an internal fault in the 'box.

citroyiannis, a very warm welcome :D I lived in Cyprus (in Limassol) for a few years back in the 80s. I love the place and a holiday there would be great :D

Back when I was there, one thing Limassol had in abundance was many highly skilled engineering companies who could do anything you asked of them, even gear cutting. If they are still there, I'm sure one could repair your gearbox with very little difficulty. I can do a remote diagnosis of what might be wrong inside.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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Post by addo »

Jim, plug in the Lexia to an AL4 and see which solenoids are operating when reverse is selected. :wink:
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Post by CitroJim »

addo wrote:Jim, plug in the Lexia to an AL4 and see which solenoids are operating when reverse is selected. :wink:
Not easy for me Adam as I have not got an AL4-equipped car :lol:

So all electrovalves are released in reverse are they?

Having a look at the documentation suggests that if the ECU is faulty or the supply to to the electrovalves fails, it will drop into 3rd hydraulic emergency mode.

For no forward drive but reverse available suggests Brake Band F3 is broken as it is operated only on 1st and 2nd gears (This brakes the second sun gear in the epicyclic).

A good test to prove this might be the fault is to deliberately invoke emergency hydraulic mode by pulling the fuse to the ECU or disconnecting it. It should then drive forward in D but with 3rd gear selected.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
addo
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Post by addo »

My mate's scan tool shows the electrovalves in operation when a gear is selected. R is the only one where they all have status 'OFF". When I first saw this, I laughed, and commented - at least you can back it onto the trailer!

Honestly don't know if the hydraulics can force a gear selection when all solenoids are non-op.

I'd have thought Cyprus might be the sort of place where you would find a competent mechanic, due to past economic constraints. Maybe things have changed in the last fifteen-twenty years...
citroyiannis
(Donor 2016)
Posts: 13
Joined: 20 Nov 2009, 09:45
Location: Nicosia, Cyprus
My Cars: BX 1.6 TRS 8V 1989 Graphite Grey (Went to scrap)
Xantia 2.0i 16V, 1998 auto, Non Hydractive, Green (stands as donor)
Xantia 2.0i 16V, 2000 auto, Hydractive, White (dove)
C3 1.4 HDI, 2005 sensodrive, Lucia Blue
Xantia 2.0i 16V, 1998 auto, Non Hydractive, White (Haven't name yet)
Xantia 2.0i 8V, 1999 TURBO Activa, Silver Grey (Neil)
Xantia 2.0i 8V, 1999 TURBO Activa, Silver Grey (Heather)

Post by citroyiannis »

Hi there all citroeneans!

Many thanks for your immediate response to my problem and for the warm welcome as well.

As I am a new meber, I spent the whole last weekend, surfing around the Frenchcarforum and reading varius topics about xantias, leaving you, "the doctors", to solve the problem.
I became citroenean in 1996 bying a second hand BX 1.6 manual. Since then I learn many things about Hydropneumatic and hydractive Suspension, but now I'll learn much more from you.

Now about the broken automatic (AL4) gearbox:
At citroen main dealer/garage, here in Cyprus, told me that any repair on this gearbox is useless. The cost of a such repair is prohibitiv and the repair itself uncertain. They didnt told me what the damage exactly is. Tomorrow I'll remove the car from Citroen garage to a friend mechanic for more tests. I'll inform you about the news!

Jim:
What you mean when you say: "I can do a remote diagnosis of what might be wrong inside."
How you can do a remote diagnosis?

By the way, what is the proper automatic trasmission flouid for this gearbox? Some leaflets gives Dexron II. Is this correct?

(Excuse for my english...:)
Yiannis
BX 1.6 TRS 8V '89 Grey
Xantia 2.0i 16V, '00 auto, Hydractive, White (dove)
Xantia 2.0i 16V, '98 auto, Non Hydractive, White
C3 1.4 HDI, '05 sensodrive, Lucia Blue
Xantia 2.0i 8V, '99 TURBO Activa, Silver Grey (Neil)
Xantia 2.0i 8V, '99 TURBO Activa, Silver Grey (Heather)
jmd
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Post by jmd »

No not let Dexron ii near your Citroen AL4 Gearbox. The correct fluid can be purchased from a Citroen dealer. It is an Esso Product - check the owners handbook
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Post by CitroJim »

Yazoo Yiannis!

I can understand your main dealer garage being reluctant to undertake a repair. Much better off with a small garage in a back street for this kind of job and I know Cyprus has plenty of small and very skilled garages hiding in the back streets of all the major cities!

Repairing automatic gearboxes is a skilled job but not as difficult as it may first seem.

I have already done some remote diagnostics by suggesting that the F3 brake band may be broken. As I said earlier, this brake is only applied in first and second gears so if broken, you will get no forward drive.

Have your friend mechanic disconnect the gearbox ECU (found under the battery tray) and then try moving forward in D. Disconnecting the ECU will have the effect of forcing the gearbox into emergency "Limp Home" mode where only third gear and reverse are available. If the car now moves forward then that will confirm there is a problem with the F3 band brake or the mechanism that controls it.

The ECU must only be disconnected or reconnected with the battery disconnected.

Spare parts are available.

The oil is very critical and as JMD says it must never be filled with red Dexron fluid. This will shorten the life of the gearbox badly.

The only and correct oil is Esso LT71141 and absolutely nothing else.

Has you gearbox been filled with Dexron fluid?
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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