'NOT GUILTY' Motorists Face Court Costs

Post by **Paul-R** » 27 Oct 2009, 22:14

Well it's not just French car related and you might call it political but I think this needs publicising as widely as possible.

Drivers acquitted of motoring charges will pay costs under new government scheme.

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default ... ryId=20842

There's a petiton at http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/CostsRecovery/ in a last ditch effort to stop the unfair change.

I've signed. I hope you will.

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 27 Oct 2009, 22:38

Read a really bizarre lead article in the past few weeks' worth of Autocar/
Autoexpress where the insurance claim liability and 'automatic guilt' would
be determined by the engine cc or value of the car and cyclists would be
totally 'innocent' and immune from any liability no matter how big a chip
they have on their shoulder and extreme agenda they purport. It sounds
so bloody twisted and silly it's bound to be law already or due next week.

This country has gone down the shute. I want out.

Andrew

addo · Post by **addo** » 28 Oct 2009, 09:32

There's still a quorum of sorts, of sane people down here. Mostly outside of the major cities, though! Old Citroens don't so much rust here as decompose from the sun.

KP · Post by KP » 28 Oct 2009, 13:09

Im in both camps on the cyclist thing but i do cheat and use lorries and buses for extra speed where i can, and the odd pickup as well

Some drivers really don't look at all. I gave up wearing a hi-vis vest over my jacket and bag as it made no odds and people still didn't see me. Many times now in broad daylight i have gone onto a roundabout and people have pulled out jsut as i have come to thier entrance onto the roundabout and nearly been squished. Its easier to ride in heavey traffic than in light traffic so its no wonder there are loads of people in london doing it

I think if i moved to oz i would have to build a massive rain cover type shack to shade the cars from the sun as i wouldn't want to leave my activa behind, though now the bolts for it are waiting until 2-11-2009 for expected delivery

a month overdue by then!

Ross_K · Post by **Ross_K** » 29 Oct 2009, 09:33

andmcit wrote:Read a really bizarre lead article in the past few weeks' worth of Autocar/
Autoexpress where the insurance claim liability and 'automatic guilt' would
be determined by the engine cc or value of the car and cyclists would be
totally 'innocent' and immune from any liability no matter how big a chip
they have on their shoulder and extreme agenda they purport.

Most cyclists need a good kicking. Since the clocks went back I've seen so many riding around in the pitch dark with no lights whatsoever - and hi-vis vests aren't a light source, contrary to what most of them think.: twisted:

Maybe if they had an ounce of cop-on, ie. not cycling through red lights or the wrong way down one way streets, I might have some sympathy for them. But they've got no idea of the Highway Code and seem to think they're in the right no matter what...

It's all very well for cyclists to be self-righteous in their dealings with the motoring public, but they're always going to come off worse in an accident and would do well to bear that in mind

OwenP · Post by **OwenP** » 29 Oct 2009, 09:59

Ross_K wrote:
Most cyclists need a good kicking. Since the clocks went back I've seen so many riding around in the pitch dark with no lights whatsoever - and hi-vis vests aren't a light source, contrary to what most of them think.: twisted:

Maybe if they had an ounce of cop-on, ie. not cycling through red lights or the wrong way down one way streets, I might have some sympathy for them. But they've got no idea of the Highway Code and seem to think they're in the right no matter what...

It's all very well for cyclists to be self-righteous in their dealings with the motoring public, but they're always going to come off worse in an accident and would do well to bear that in mind

Having said that there are plenty of car drivers that really need to be taught how to drive around cyclists.

I used to cycle around 8 miles to work and back, sometimes finishing at 11 pm. Whenever I'm out on the bike I have a helmet on, a high vis jacket, and If I'm going to be out late a pair of bright lights as well. During the time when I was cycling back at 11pm I had to get a new set of lights that were even brighter (now into the realms of not legal to use on the road), due to the number of drivers who refused to drop off main beams for a cyclist. (Every single one of them.) Leaving me unable to see for the next couple of hundred yards.

For the record, I have never cycled through a red light or cycled the wrong way on a one way street, and I have a pretty good idea of the highway code, although not as good as it once was as I've not read it in a while.

However, cyclists should not automatically be the innocent party in any accident. The same as there should be no automatic assumption of guilt in any case.

Back to the original topic, I'm disgusted, but not surprised to read this, I will be emailing a number of friends and aquantancies to draw their attention to this and signing it myself. Thankfully I have never been in a position to need to challenge anything like this in court, but I can see the number of dishonest "convictions" going through the roof within days if this is made law.

Should take the country nicely to "Guilty unless you have the money to prove your innocent" which isn't many steps from "you're guilty cause we say so and never mind the facts" and this law could be applied to ANY section of the "justice" system not just motoring.

addo · Post by **addo** » 29 Oct 2009, 10:20

I presume the Magna Carta is still on display. My parents, who could be dogged on principles sometimes, pointedly took my brother and I to view it.

While it is an historical relic, it's sad to see the underscoring intent now firmly consigned to the dustbin of history.

Post by **Paul-R** » 29 Oct 2009, 11:30

OwenP wrote:Back to the original topic,

Thankyou for that.

While I think that the cyclist topic is an interesting one and deserving of its own thread I couldn't believe how quickly my original post went off topic!

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 29 Oct 2009, 12:19

Paul-R wrote: I couldn't believe how quickly my original post went off topic!

oops, sorry. I have done my bit by adding my name to petition too!

Andrew

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 29 Oct 2009, 12:26

I think it's Lawyers and Solicitors trying to stir things up by scaremongering. Unfortunately, not one link I've visited has reported the other side of the story and no matter how deplorable something seems, I try and reserve judgement until I've heard the other side.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 20 Nov 2009, 17:43

This country has gone down the shute. I want out.

Andrew

Sadly so true, Andrew.... I never dreamed I would one day say that France has a fairer regime. So sad..... down here, it is more or less the case that if you keep your nose clean, nobody bothers you.