Chinese Lexia-3 for Citroen C4 diagnostics

kenhall1202 · Post by **kenhall1202** » 26 Oct 2009, 20:53

Has anyone out there had any success at all using a Chinese sourced Lexia-3 to communicate fully with a Citroen C4?

My recent China sourced Lexia-3 purchase has worked OK communicating with my XM 2.1TD (with the Lucas EPIC injection system) and has read everything apart from the airbag system (I wasn't even aware that the XM airbags had an associated ECU). However on my C4 2.0HDI the Global diagnostic test can establish dialogue with only 2 (Injection and one other IIRC) of the 31 systems (of course some of these 31 are dependent on the car specification and options and may not be physically present).

There seems to be a lot of anecdotal evidence quoted in various forums as to the reasons why Chinese Lexias have difficulty 'talking' to the C4 CANBUS system, eg:

"It's a Chinese clone of the genuine ACTIA interface and therefore it is inferior to the real thing",
"Poor quality components used in the Evolution interface",
"The supplied software cannot do everything that the Citroen dealer's software does",
"Poor electrical contacts in the vehicle OBD socket or the Lexia cable connecting plugs",
"It's not just Chinese Lexias, even the official dealer equipment has difficulty with 100% CANBUS equipped vehicles",
"Your computer must be connected to the internet before starting the Lexia application",
and so on

I would be pleased to hear about any other member's experience using a Lexia-3 on the C4, especially from anyone who has got to work as it should.

Regards

Ken

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 26 Oct 2009, 21:18

I have been reliably informed that neither Lexia 3 or the associated ACTIA dongle will interrogate the later Cits and Puegots that are all CANBUS.

The reason I say this is because I purchased my apparently genuine ACTIA s/H from a guy who serviced the body building and insurance sector. His reason for selling it was simply that it wouldn't talk to these cars, he did say that the latest bit of kit from PSA which will talk both to new and old cars had cost him in excess of £1K.

My belief is that on the newer cars there may be odd bits which talk through OBDC but that the main channel of communication will be directly onto the CANBUS backbone, this means that the "dongle" bit will need to have a CANBUS interface built in.

EDIT The fact that the Lexia 3 can talk to the injection on the C4 figures as that it likely to be a legacy design which talks OBDC, much of the rest of the stuff is likely to new and there is no point in designing in an OBDC interface when you can look directly at CAN data.

Cachaciero

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 26 Oct 2009, 21:42

Picked up of E-bay this basically confirms what I have already said, you need something that talks to PSA's version of CANBUS which I guess is called Uniplex it would also appear that there is a "standard" for comms with CANBUS systems EOBD

ACR4 CanBus Uniplex Adaptor PSA

*
Latest SP Harness: 30215200
*
Uniplex Adaptor For Peugeot / Citroen Applications 307, 308 etc
*
Required For BSI Configiration And Engine Management Systems On Later PSA Vehicles
*
Compatible With Fault Tollerant CanBus Harness 302141V2 Ony
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Simple Harness Upgrade
*
Brand New

Modern vehicle manufacturers are constantly changing the way they communicate with diagnostic systems on cars. Uniplex is the very latest addition to the Peugeot / Citroen Vehicle Diagnostics. Sykes have come up with a very inexpensive way to adapt your existing CanBus harness to work with theses cars. Simply add the adaptor to the end of your existing CanBus harness and you will now be able to do the very latest Systems including EM and BSI configuration on late model 307 and 308 Peugeot's as well as other Peugeot / Citroen systems. This Adaptor will only work with the latest 302141V2 Fault Tollerant CanBus Harness. Please e-mail me if you require further information. sales@alltooled-up.co.uk

The following item number 200347748441 on e-bay may be of interest @ £30.00 may be worth a punt.

Cachaciero

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 26 Oct 2009, 22:46

Lexia 3 evolution interface & even the older style interface should talk to Full CAN vehicles (mk2 C5,C4 & C6 etc) without any problem. The only exceptions are Fiat based Citroens eg Relay 3 & Nemo which require an additional adaptor to talk to them. Lexia doesent need to be connected to the internet either for basic fault reading & live data. Sounds just like a poor quality interface.

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 05 Nov 2009, 10:02

wheeler wrote:Lexia 3 evolution interface & even the older style interface should talk to Full CAN vehicles (mk2 C5,C4 & C6 etc) without any problem. The only exceptions are Fiat based Citroens eg Relay 3 & Nemo which require an additional adaptor to talk to them. Lexia doesent need to be connected to the internet either for basic fault reading & live data. Sounds just like a poor quality interface.

Wheeler

I wouldn't disagree with you about Lexia Evolution but that is the latest and a different interface to the Actia device supplied for Lexia 3. Having had my Actia made device apart there does not appear to be any recognizable CAN bus interface it, i.e non of the chips that I would associate with a CAN bus interface, so I don't see how this device could communicate with CAN bus.
Now if you can tell me that you have an original ACTIA dongle and you have used it on a CAN bus car i.e C5 mk3 or C4 and it reads all the ECU's then I would have to re-consider that statement but if you are assuming that the older interface will talk to CAN bus then I would say that your assumption is wrong.

Regards Cachaciero

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 05 Nov 2009, 12:17

It's not an assumption, it's fact. Im no electronics expert & would have no idea what a CAN chip looked like but I do have both types of the ICC interface both of which are genuine actia & Both of them fully comunicate (BSI,ESP, com2000 etc) on the full Citroen range that has a 16pin EOBD style diagnostic connector apart from the Relay3 & the nemo which are basically fiats, to use any of these interfaces with these cars you need an adaptor as soldIn this kit . Both the old & new inerfaces do exactly the same thing, the only differance is the evolution is more rugged for use in a workshop, the older one is easily damaged, its just a printer style usb connection into the unit which is easily broken. Every time the Lexia is updated the ICC interface firmware is also updated automatically. Lexia 2 will even talk to full CAN cars with an adaptor which is just like the old style interface but with a different connector, there is no evolution interface for lexia2. There will be dealers still using the old interface which at the moment only needs to be replaced by the evolution when the old one breaks. The first full CAN citroens were the C4 & the mk2 C5 which have been around a lot longer that the evolution interface.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 05 Nov 2009, 12:45

I'm on the lookout for the 16-pin Actia adpater to go with my Diag2000. The price Actia want is silly money - does anyone know where I can buy such cables at a more affordable price? £300 for those ebay items just beggars belief.

kenhall1202 · Post by **kenhall1202** » 05 Nov 2009, 13:01

Thanks for the above replies.

As far as I can tell Uniplex is one of a range a Sykes - Pickavant products which has been brought out to make the older versions of S-P diagnostic tools capable of 'talking' to modern 100% CANBUS equipped cars. As such it would appear to be S-P specific and have no relevance to the Lexia kit.

Wheeler - sorry to be pedantic, but please can you confirm whether or not you have successfully used your 9780.Z5 multiplexer specifically on a C4 model.

As a matter of interest I have examined the dual PCB innards of my Chinese 9780.Z5 multiplexer and it all seems well put together with well known branded IC's etc (made in Japan and Korea(Samsung)) so unless the Chinese are faking the component labels I have no reason to suspect poor quality components have been used. I can post the PCB pics if anyone is interested.

Ken

wheeler · Post by **wheeler** » 05 Nov 2009, 14:38

kenhall1202 wrote: Wheeler - sorry to be pedantic, but please can you confirm whether or not you have successfully used your 9780.Z5 multiplexer specifically on a C4 model.

The only models in the current range that i have not had a chance to try them on are the Mk3 C5, the C3 picasso & the Nemo. That includes the C-Crosser & C6 which both talk to no problem. I dont have the fiat adaptor but i've tried it on a Relay 3 with a borrowed adaptor. The mk3 C5 has an identical full CAN electrical architecture to the mk2 so i see no reason it wont work on them.

Mike T: The kit in the link is no good for making a Lexia2/diag2000 talk to full CAN cars but i think its not too bad a price for what it is (i dont have any connection with the seller bt the way) What have you been quoted from Actia for the full CAN interface ?

rmunns · Post by **rmunns** » 05 Nov 2009, 16:00

This is all totally beyond us of a certain age.

Can't we have a sub-forum for us old fogies, we could all reminisce about thumbs which were broken on starting handles, the joys of stripping and rebuilding SU carbs and other delights of mechanically supporting the likes of Standard Flying 9's and TR2's.

addo · Post by **addo** » 05 Nov 2009, 18:54

But - you can have all that fun and still learn!

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 06 Nov 2009, 21:51

kenhall1202 wrote:Thanks for the above replies.

As far as I can tell Uniplex is one of a range a Sykes - Pickavant products

Ken

Not so, Uniplex is a PSA definition and standard, Sykes Pickavant make equipment to interface to it. Which I have to say still leaves me a little confused as to how the Actia interface talks to this as I have to assume that Uniplex is not OBDC and may not even be EOBD, there are things about this that I don't understand... need to do some digging for info....

cachaciero

fred1 · Post by **fred1** » 07 Nov 2009, 09:41

Hi,

I don't havew any knowledge of Canbus but if I were Citroen I would have put a translating interface between the OBDC socket and the internal bus etc on each model to ensure that the OBDC socket and data looked the same on all their cars.

I would not therefore expect to see canbus chips in the Actia.

John

kenhall1202 · Post by **kenhall1202** » 07 Nov 2009, 18:38

Not so, Uniplex is a PSA definition and standard, Sykes Pickavant make equipment to interface to it. Which I have to say still leaves me a little confused as to how the Actia interface talks to this as I have to assume that Uniplex is not OBDC and may not even be EOBD, there are things about this that I don't understand... need to do some digging for info....Sad

cachaciero

Sorry but I'm still not convinvced that Uniplex is a PSA specific product. On their website S-P have Uniplex adaptors available for PSA, Land Rover and Volvo vehicles(plus some Ford applications). Have a look at their site at http://www.spsupport.com/index.php/prod ... niplex-faq where you will see:

"What is a uniplex?

A uniplex is a physical adapter used to allow communication with additional CAN bus networks on certain vehicles. It is used in conjunction with the ACR4, G2 pod and CAN harness."

cachaciero · Post by **cachaciero** » 08 Nov 2009, 19:01

Ken

You are right I am wrong, went back and re-read that which made me think it was PSA was quite clear second time around must be an age thing

.

Cachaciero