Removing ball joints without flats- How Best?

John Plum · Post by **John Plum** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:02

Hi Folk, looking at two balljoints, I see that the collar just below the thread insert is round without flats, by design, unless my eyes are decieving me.
How are they best removed, according to your experience...apart from the usual soaking in plusgas and heating, I mean how to get a grip on them?
Is there a special tool?

Post by **CitroJim** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:12

Hi John,

Generally speaking, they hold on their tapers well enough to allow the nut to come undone.

To make as sure as possibler of this, I always wire brush the threads clean and then soak in Plus gas. Then I loosen the nut and if it seems to be getting tight I do it up a bit, then undo it a bit more and so on until it comes off. A bit like using a die to cut a thread.

If the worst happens and the taper does let go before the nut is off, use a sturdy pry-bar between the joint and it's home to lever it up so the nut is tight again and then apply the spanner.

For the lower swivel balljoint you'll need a hefty taper-breaker (balljoint splitter) to separate them and you're more likely to have problems with the track rod end taper letting go.

Drop links often have a hex (Allen) or Torx hole in them to counter-hold them whilst undoing their nuts.

I guess you're replacing a drive shaft then?

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:26

I saw your blog earlier John and was going to comment but I was unclear
which joint you refer to much as Jim is guessing too!

Are you referring to the trackrod (tierod) end, the end of the driveshaft,
the infamous droplink or the bottom hub ball joint?

All of these of course will have a nyloc nut so are inteded to drag on the
spindle of the joint when undoing. If you don't see an allen head to grip
the removal depends on whether you have a replacement available as the
old worn one can be cut off by grinder or even (if you're patient) a hacksaw!
Certainly the only method for duff droplinks.

The lower ball joint onto the hub has peening on it's rim and needs a specific
removal tool that engages into 4 castleated slots - IIRC I'm sure the Bx has
too though I've never done this (yet) on one.

The IIRC, the tierod is parallel so there's little grip on a taper to worry about
anyway. You may need to resort to molegrips to hold the top part of the ball
joint under the rubber gaiter - easy to say but a hassle to do I know!

Andrew

Post by **myglaren** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:35

May or may not apply in this situation but I used to put a scissor jack directly onto the balljoint to jam it in place, clean the threads, unwind the nut to the top of the thread, shift the jack to support the arm but clear of the balljoint the whack the hell out of the nut/thread with a lump hammer. One decent blow was generally enough to shock it out.
Needless to say it was no further use after that but it was generally condemned beforehand anyway. They were cheap enough too

John Plum · Post by **John Plum** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:40

Hi Jim,
Yes you guessed: Though I found the toothed abs ring to be in good order, and suspect only the calliper/linings to be sticking and responsible for the horrible noise after lying still. The noise goes away after a few miles. The outer d/s gaiter was not tied down, and some of it cut away where the tie should rest, and grease seeping all over. I suspect it was left that way after an inspection by a the garage and driven like that for a few hundred (My 250 miles anyway). After some initial cleaning, the abs warning light went off for a good while. I 'm hovering on the verge of a decision to replace the shaft form the scrappy, in case of some wear, anyway: it's a 50/50 kind of decision, because I don't know what I'll be getting! Other points, This is the n/s driveshaft and the car pulls to the left on brake and slightly when steering.

To make as sure as possibler of this, I always wire brush the threads clean and then soak in Plus gas. Then I loosen the nut and if it seems to be getting tight I do it up a bit, then undo it a bit more and so on until it comes off. A bit like using a die to cut a thread.

That's a concise description of my self-evloved technique!

Actually I have the bottom nut off (with my trusty 4' pipe to slip over the break bar) ..and that saved me having to do any strength training this week

- and freed the taper. The trackrod balljoint is loose and taper freed, but nut caught at end; both were cross threaded, probably with an airtool..any way that'll be off one way or another tomorrow...perhaps a simple hacksaw - no problem.

What i meant, but found hard to specify in words, was that upper (wide) 'threaded male inserts of the ball joints, to be removed from their housing above', in order to remove and replace the ball joints, ( I didn't mean the taper ends and their nuts - The hub is free more or less (notwithstanding that last few rounds of the track rod balljoint).
Normally these have flats just below the threaded insert to aid removal. These are round - no flats whatsoever. Have you come across such like?

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:50

John,

this topic was thrashed through recently on here:
http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... +balljoint

The balljoint WILL be peened if it's been correctly fitted and all efforts
to remove it will fail if you don't remove the burring in both spots!

Andrew

Brigsygtt · Post by **Brigsygtt** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:51

Get some big stihlsons on the balljoint to remove it from the hub.

There should be 4 small slots where a special socket fits on it, use the proper socket to fit the new balljoint.

I took the hubs off & clamped them in the vice when i done mine, easy job took half an hr a side.

Post by **CitroJim** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:56

John Plum wrote: What i meant, but found hard to specify in words, was that upper (wide) 'threaded male inserts of the ball joints, to be removed from their housing above', in order to remove and replace the ball joints, ( I didn't mean the taper ends and their nuts - The hub is free more or less (notwithstanding that last few rounds of the track rod balljoint).
Normally these have flats just below the threaded insert to aid removal. These are round - no flats whatsoever. Have you come across such like?

Ahh yes, they can be a nightmare John

You will have seen they're the same as on the BX. As you know they should have four slots around their periphery for a special tool to engage or to give a cold chisel purchase. Furthermore, the top edges should be peened into slots on the hub carrier to stop them working loose (fat chance!). If yours are smooth and round with no slots then they must have been replaced at some time with non-OE items. If they need replacing then the best will be to remove the hub carrier complete, easier than it looks, and hold it in a big vice so you can get either a big pair of Stillsons on them or give an excellent vantage point to knock them out with a cold chisel and BIG hammer. they're often very tight and should be Loctited in. You may need gentle heat but not too much as you will risk melting the grease out of the wheel bearings. It could be tricky!

Are they definitely gone?

As for the trackrod end, I've saved one by carefully cutting off the Nyloc bit of the nut with a junior hacksaw to leave, effectively. a normal nut. With the Nyloc bit gone, they usually undo no problem. If you're replacing the joint then a hacksaw or angle grinder will make short work of it.

Post by **CitroJim** » 06 Oct 2009, 19:57

Sorry Brigsy, thee and me typing at the same time

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 06 Oct 2009, 22:53

this is the special tool required to remove and refit the lower swivle joint

http://www.jhmbuttco.com/acatalog/info_AST3278.html

regards malcolm

John Plum · Post by **John Plum** » 07 Oct 2009, 08:20

Thanks guys, I suspected so...hub off, then, Yes I removed hub carriers when doing the BX..and then employed a stilson and chisel where necessary.
The special socket looks very nice, thanks for that.

These balljoints haven't gone, just I damaged the rubbers with my forked tool.
I'll see if I can get some replacement rubbers first..not so easy.