Sphere that won't budge

49er_Jerry · Post by **49er_Jerry** » 25 Aug 2009, 16:04

I have been trying to shift the nearside rear sphere on a MK1 Xantia Estate for most of the afternoon. The offside sphere cracked using a Xac Special tool as per the description and instructions on the sticky above.

Cracking the n/s sphere has proved a tougher nut entirely. I have sheared two pieces of M6 rod on the Xac tool, snapped two chains on a Draper oil filter wrench, and had no luck modifying the Draper tool with some 10mm Kevlar cordage (incidently, using the Kevlar has allowed the greatest leverage). The sphere joint has been thoroughly soaked in WD40, (couldn't locate any GasPlus in Sheffield), both overnight and at intervals during the day. I have also tried heating the sphere gently with a small blow lamp, but never above hot to the touch, but still it won't move.

Can anyone suggest any other means or options to get it to move. I

I think the rear spheres are original (152600 miles) and seriously need changing.

Thanks in advance.

Jerry

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 25 Aug 2009, 16:23

Oil filter wrench would be too weak for spheres. I would have suggested chain version which I have described here
( http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=27911 )
but you have already snapped 2 chains

You can try to an original sphere tool (eBay search to see model & prices) or try a plummer's pipe wrench. I have not tried but it might work

Post by **Peter.N.** » 25 Aug 2009, 16:41

I would say the hammer and chisel approach would be favourite. Use a sharp cold chisel into the seam around the centre, in the unscrewing direction, with as shallow an angle as possible consistent with keeping the chisel in the metal, a few good blows with a heavy hammer should suffice.

49er_Jerry · Post by **49er_Jerry** » 25 Aug 2009, 16:51

Peter,

I assume the aim is to use the cold chisel to drive the sphere round, using the chisel at the maximum diameter of the sphere?

I am also assuming that this should be done with the suspension set to high with the engine running, as per normal sphere removal?

Jerry

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 25 Aug 2009, 16:59

49er_Jerry wrote:Peter,

I assume the aim is to use the cold chisel to drive the sphere round, using the chisel at the maximum diameter of the sphere?

I am also assuming that this should be done with the suspension set to high with the engine running, as per normal sphere removal?

Jerry

And with the wheels on the ground, with you protected by axle stands or jack so it can't come down on you, and with as much weight on the rear wheels as you possibly can get, as per normal rear sphere cracking.
Once cracked you then get the rear off the ground and depressurise before unscrewing the old spheres.

49er_Jerry · Post by **49er_Jerry** » 25 Aug 2009, 17:03

Thanks Xac,

Final question before I attack with the chisel, is there a danger of splitting the sphere with the chisel? If so, are there any additional precautions?

Car has a loaded boot, is on ramps with a trolley jack as extra support.

Jerry

Post by **Peter.N.** » 25 Aug 2009, 17:14

Well I have been removing stubborn ones like this for 15 years or more and I have never punctured one yet. Moving your suspension height lever to its lowest setting will suitably depressurise the system.

Xantidote · Post by **Xantidote** » 25 Aug 2009, 17:17

By "heavy hammer", Peter will mean a lump hammer, 2 1/2 or even 4lbs, to give it some welly. The shock might be enough to get it moving.

In the Sticky, Old-Guy refers to a Machine Mart oil filter chain wrench CHT 243, which, when I look at it, resembles my smaller chain wrench. He had success with this.

However, to date, I've always removed spheres using a heavier duty chain wrench, bought long time ago, but still marketted by Sykes-Pickavant (ref number 038900). Each link of chain comprises 4 leaves, as opposed to usual 2. Not cheap though. Torque applied by socket wrench or 1" spanner. If chain slips on sphere, then a strip of coarse emery will improve the grip.

Martin

Post by **Peter.N.** » 25 Aug 2009, 17:27

I made a wrench out of dual motorcylcle chain with a fitting to take a 20mm socket, that combined with a four foot bar shifts most of them. The only problem I get is that the chain sometimes slips on the sphere so you have to get it at a slight angle across the seam.

Peter

xmexclusive · Post by **xmexclusive** » 25 Aug 2009, 18:08

Hi All

IMHO the ebay items are not really satisfactory alternatives to the Pliades tool. They use a single bolt point threaded in the thin metal band to lock onto the sphere. The band goes egg shaped and deforms on load. With my skill on a really tough sphere they either slip or the hollow tube handle winds gently around the sphere. Mine went in the scrap bin after that. It may just be that I am a little heavy handed or perhaps failing to manage to take apart with one hand while holding the BoL in the other is my problem. A stuck sphere just brings out a bit of aggression.
I would like to claim the record for sphere removal incompetence.
The failures with straps and chains are a distant memory.
I still have the spheres with large spirals of cut steel from the hammer and cold chisel attempts. Avoid particularly sharp tool steel cold chisels.
I even had my broken Pliades tool (snapped band) nailed up for a while as a badge of honour. We identified a rather unique manufacturing fault. I should add that this broken tool was replaced without question other than that no one else had managed to break one.

John

Post by **CitroJim** » 25 Aug 2009, 20:21

I too would recommend a Pleiades tool. I've given mine some stern tests and it has never failed me, even when extended with a length of scaffold pole or walloped with a big hammer to remove a particularly difficult sphere.

One tip with the Pleiades tool on really stubborn ones is to hammer on the end of the handle at the same time as you are applying undoing force to it.

Vince will testify to the effectiveness of this

I'd use nothing else now...

Hammer and cold chisel is a last resort that does work OK if done with care.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 25 Aug 2009, 20:48

i have two diferent tools for sphere removal,
1 is a 30cm stanley pipe chain wrench i have had for quite a few years never let me down, even with a two foot tube on the end,

the other is the proper citroen tool which i think those orible ebay tools are trying to imatate, appart from this one is a steel band with a pinch bolt to pull the band together, tighten it up and give it a thump with said knock omiter,

i have never in all the years i have worked on and around citroens resorted to a hammer and chisle,

you must crack them off with suspension on high, but i dont belive haveing the car on its wheels with weight in the rear will put any more load on the suspension unit, than the hydraulic presure pushing the unit hard against the sub frame can

regards malcolm

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 25 Aug 2009, 21:39

So far I have removed only 3 spheres (front) x 2 times. In my opinion they were easy to remove or may be I was lucky.

Are rear spheres more difficult to remove than front spheres or is this an exceptional case? (Sorry to ask such a question but I'm a beginner in Hydraulic issues.)

49er_Jerry · Post by **49er_Jerry** » 25 Aug 2009, 21:48

Thanks for all the advice and tips.

The hammer and chisel method worked a treat. All spheres changed except the Antisink, for which the nut was very corroded and rounded immediately. Luckily, the back end does not sink, so I guess it must still be ok.

Hydraflush added and all brakes bled, all from the advice listed above. Thanks.

Post by **CitroJim** » 25 Aug 2009, 21:49

VertVega wrote: Are rear spheres more difficult to remove than front spheres or is this an exceptional case? (Sorry to ask such a question but I'm a beginner in Hydraulic issues.)

Never ever worry about asking such questions. That one is a good one!

Yes they are more difficult, primarily because the suspension cylinders are loose when not under pressure and if you try to loosen the spheres with the pressure off, the cylinder will rotate and likely damage the hydraulic feed pipe to it. Loosening them under full hydraulic pressure forces the cylinder to be very tight so the risk of rotating it and damaging the pipe is avoided.

It does, however, take a considerable force to loosen a sphere under full system pressure. You'll find you only need to just loosen them slightly under pressure to just break the bond, perhaps just one eighth of a turn, and then after depressurising the system, they'll unscrew easily by hand.

Finally, to make matters that little more difficult at the rear, the spheres tend to pick up a load of corrosion being as they're in a very exposed position. This has the effect or practically welding the rubber sealing ring to both the sphere and cylinder.