rear suspension cream crackered

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 06 Jul 2009, 10:39

Dear All

Well I've finally got some time to get all the jobs done on the car for this summer. So this will probably be the first of many requests

I've got a string of jobs, but the current most annoying one is the rear suspension. Basically there isnt any! It bounces like a bouncy castle over speed bumps, and rear passengers heads keep banging on the roof

So, I guess I need to change the green spheres..

which ones do i change? is it easy? do I need a strap wrench?

I need to get new rear tyres anyway, so maybe it's worth getting it all done at the same time in the garage ??....

any help most appreciated

Thanks

Larry

KP · Unread post by KP » 06 Jul 2009, 10:47

The rear spheres are very easy to change.

Its best to buy one of the tools off ebay that fits round the sphere and that you tighten a nut up onto the sphere to lock it on. there are a few version about and all seem to work ok fram what has been said on here.

Also you must soak the spheres where they thread onto the strut/hydraulic cylinders at least the day before so that the fluid can penetrate the threads as the read ones get covered in so much road grime they are oftern rusted on quite badly.

To take them off you need to set the suspension to max hieght. put some axle stands at the rear supports for the car so should it sink you will be safe-ish! this is very important to do!!

Then with the sphere tool of choice gently try and loosen the sphere. you only want to do it about 1/4turn at this point, just enough to crack it off without twisting the cylinder as well.

Then jack up the rear of the car properly and support it on the axle stands. Then set the hieght lever to minimum and start your engine and give it a minute for the front to sink. once the fron has sink open up the bleed screw on the front accumulator block to release any left in hydraulic pressure from the circuit. Now you can retreat back under the rear of the car and get those spheres off.

Sid_the_Squid · Unread post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 06 Jul 2009, 10:56

KP's advice is sound, however last time I did rear spheres I found it quite hard, more the putting on the new ones, its quite fiddly to get the thread right when your upside down.

There are various tools used to remove old spheres, you'll need something stronger than an oil filter strap or chain wrench. I use one of these, obtained from a local car parts store.

I would only let a garage touch the hydraulics system if they are a citroen specalist.

If you want to do yourself get some GSF spheres, they good quality and ressonably priced. You need to two courner ones, and possibly the rear middle if you have an anti sink car.

*apologies for the ridiculously large picture, its another one of my google specials, and I've no idea how to make it smaller

Fixed that for you - it's a thumbnail now, click it for full size image.
Steve.

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 06 Jul 2009, 11:36

HI thanks alot for your prompt replies

A couple of questions:

1. Why do I loosen the spheres before depressurising the system properly?

2. Will this tool do? http://www.premier-tools.com/products/0 ... ml?lang=uk

I'm in spain and tools/parts are not that easy to come by

Cheers
Larry

Sid_the_Squid · Unread post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 06 Jul 2009, 12:06

I think thats going to be to weak, I tried searching that site there are two chain wrenches for oil filters, but they also look to weak, the frist time I tried to remove spheres I snapped two oil filter chain wrenches before I found the current tool I'm using.

Why do I loosen the spheres before depressurising the system properly?

Basically its to ensure the parts the spheres are screwd into are held in place and cannot move, it can take a fair bit of pressue to shift a sphere thats been on the car for a long time, if you tried it with the system depressureds without loosening the spheres first you could end up twisting the whole suspension thing off the car.

Sorry that explination is a bit weak, I don't know the technical terms.

KP · Unread post by KP » 06 Jul 2009, 12:15

eBay

I use something like this but mine is a bit shorter and thicker with the handle than that but was about the same price. the extra length just means you can apply more pressure but as said the key is to soak the thing in wd40 or such like a few days before hand and then clean it off with an old cloth before you attack it as if its clean the grip will be much better and have on hand an oil pan or the like as the LHm will have filled it by now and leak out a lot!!

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 06 Jul 2009, 12:22

This http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=21850 will tell you how to make a DIY sphere tool.
Can you tell us (and update your signature) which spec your xantia is? LX/SX/VSX as the VSX has extra spheres.

Use a jack for protection under the car. You don't want to get squashed.
You need to set the car on high and fill the boot with weight because the rear suspension struts are not locked in place, they're just squeezed in place by the weight of the car. If you don't squeeze them hard enough (ie have enough weight in the back of the car) then they can rotate when you try and take the sphere off, damaging the pipe etc.
You just need to "crack" the sphere, so it's only just undone, to break any rust bond it has with it's socket.
Make sure you turn the spheres the right way!
Once you've cracked the rear spheres off, get the back up on axle stands, then set the suspension on low.
The front will drop, the back will rise, and you'll have plenty of room to work under.
Turn the engine off, and depresurise the hydrolics.

The middle sphere in the centre will most likely also need to be replaced. It's known as the anti-sink sphere (as it's fitted to cars with anti-sink rather than the very early xantias).
The hydrolic pipe goes directly into the sphere, so you must undo the pipe before removing the sphere, otherwise you'll twist and snap/block the pipe.
The easiest way to do this is by slackening the pipe union with a 9mm flare spanner (it's like a ring spanner but with a slot cut out so it can fit pipes).
Then, holding the spanner on the union, unscrew the sphere.
This then screws the sphere out of it's socket and also off the pipe union.
You may need to replace the seal on the pipe (it may come off inside the sphere).
Refit is the reverse, get a couple of threads of the sphere in it's socket, then a couple of threads of the union in the sphere, and holding the union in place with the spanner, screw the sphere in, then it will only take a couple of turns to nip the union back up.
Even though it doesn't need it, I use the large ring seal that comes with the anti-sink sphere to prevent it rusting against it's socket.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 06 Jul 2009, 12:44

Xac wrote: Once you've cracked the rear spheres off, get the back up on axle stands, then set the suspension on low.
The front will drop, the back will rise, and you'll have plenty of room to work under.
Turn the engine off, and depresurise the hydrolics.

The best way to disperse any fluid from the rear suspension units after you have cracked the spheres from the cylinders by 1/4 of a turn, put a trolly jack under the subframe useually below the sphere mount area wereits flat, and then put the suspension on low and let the car drop right down and LEAVE IT RUNNING FOR ABOUT 3 mins!!! This will empty the cylinders of most fluid, I also tend to pump the break pedal as this also helps drain the rear units!

If you dont drain the fluid from the system, when you remove the sphere the fluid will POUR out EVERY where, and pick up dirt off the subfram, so you can even reuse it... (it will virtually drain the system.)

THEN with the engine STILL running, undo the 13mm nut on the REGULATOR!! You MUST do this to release the pressure in the system...

THEN switch the engine off, jack the rear back up place yur axle stands under neath and swap the spheres over...

Good luck
Paul

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 06 Jul 2009, 13:07

The only time I've had a douche vert from the rear strut spheres was when they were low on pressure and couldn't return the lhm back to the resevoir

That was Dex's rear O/S if memory serves.
If there's still a dribble, stuff some clean rag into the sockets.
Although to be honest, the rear sphere is only going to be off long enough to fit the new one.

KP · Unread post by KP » 06 Jul 2009, 13:49

Also if you have a TD xantia, maybe even an epic, then you could run the reclaimed LHM thru a coffee filter or twon and then shove it in your tank for some free fuel. better than scrapping it

never did my old TD anyharm the one time and its only going to be a max of 2litres if its really bad!!

Unread post by **Old-Guy** » 06 Jul 2009, 14:49

There's a whole sticky thread devoted to the subject:
Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding
Very comprehensive and expert advice.

GSF will send parts world wide - by DHL, IIRC. When I did mine less than 18 months ago the spheres were about £21 each from GSF (total under £150 including 5L LHM), at Citroen UK list prices the spheres would have been nearly £480!

lazza · Unread post by **lazza** » 07 Jul 2009, 09:53

Thanks for all your posts... that all makes sense.

I can pick up spheres for 36 € from the local car parts shop. So I hope to do the job shortly. They said there are two types, hydroactive and normal.. which one should I get?

A question on the type of Xantia.. it is a 1.9TD from 1996- however in terms of LX,SX etc... all I have on the spec sheet is X1-8A, the identification code starts VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]

anyone know what I should quote on my signature?

Cheers
Larry

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 07 Jul 2009, 11:05

Normally its on the back of the car.

A very basic way of telling what spec car you have is the following:
Do you have electric rear windows? No - LX model
Yes - SX or VSX
Do you have thick chunky pipes going to the front suspension struts - No SX (pipes are thin, 4.5mm diameter if memory serves)
Yes - VSX (hydractive)

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 07 Jul 2009, 11:54

non hydractive susp strut pipes are 3.5 Xac,

hydractive are i belive or the metal section at least are 6mm, but as i say with metal and high presure rubber sections

regards malcolm