Xantia nasty noise when lowering from 'high'

jack.dempsey · Unread post by **jack.dempsey** » 08 Apr 2003, 19:38

My Xantia suspension can be cycled, using the hight lever, throughout the range, without any discernable problems. However I recently took it to get new tyres and fitters asked me to raise suspension to high, which I did. After the tyre change and subsequent bill payment I went back to my Xantia, still on high, and started the engine and selected low.......such a mechanical groanching noise for a few seconds - fightened me a lot. Since that occasion I've tried to understand what is going on here, without coming to any conclusions. It does seem that if I pump the car up and leave it for any length of time (more than a few minutes), when I next pressurise the hydraulics (on engine start) I get this racket. Can anyone point me in the right direction. The noise seems to come from the front left side, reservoir/nearside leg area. Car seems to float along nicely under normal driving conditions. Sounds expensive.

Unread post by **alan s** » 08 Apr 2003, 20:50

I think the Xantia & BX have a similar set up in this regards.
This being the case, it will possibly be the front struts getting close to needing rebuilding.
A possible DIY job if you're a bit handy; not a nice job but not all that big if you can handle it.
This is the job BX style:
http://www.bx.citroen.org/m05/m05e.html
If the Xantia is much different, I've no doubts someone will post to that effect.
Alan S

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 09 Apr 2003, 02:08

This noise is common amongst Xantias, mine and that of a family members both do it.
I have ranted on about what I though it to be on here before, which was either the front anti roll bar rotating in it rubber bushings or the suspension arm rubber bushes.
However none of those original ideas would now seem to be correct because as I noticed a few weeks ago, I lowered the suspension on my car after some maintenance procedure and was rewarded with the usual heavy groaning from the suspension, but I noticed that this awfull racket actualy began BEFORE the car started to sink, this obviousely blows those first thoughts on this subject out of the water since they would require movement of the body.
This leads me to believe that the noise comes from the actual suspension strut, but what causes it I can only guess at, maybe there is a rebound rubber inside it that gets compressed under the intense pressure, such a thing could spring back as the pressure is reduced and before the body began to sink.
Got my 1.9td with 13k miles on it and this noise was discovered not to long after that, so I dont think its wear related.
My first Xantia, a 1.9D was chopped in for it at 110k and it never made this noise once.
If my car made these types of noises during normal operation I would soon be wanting to know why, but it doesn't so I dont pay much attention to it, especialy when I know of two low mileage cars that did it, I just regard it as a trait of the mark.
Have read somewhere that Xantia struts are'nt servicable and have to be replaced, anyone else come accross this.
Dave

nick · Unread post by **nick** » 09 Apr 2003, 14:15

My '97 Xantia makes this noise if lowered with the engine switched off, but never does it if its lowered while the engine is running so I've always assumed its something to do with the anti-sink system.
Nick

akojic · Unread post by **akojic** » 09 Apr 2003, 16:16

It is the same situation on my Xantia![8)]

nick · Unread post by **nick** » 09 Apr 2003, 23:55

I think I'm right in saying that you're not supposed to lower the suspension on an anti-sink Xantia with the engine switched off anyway. I've done it on mine a couple of times by accident and it always makes that horrible noise, but never appears to cause any damage. You should really start the engine and allow the system time pressurise before moving the lever.
Jack, possibly when starting it at the tyre depot you didn't give it enough time to pressurise before moving the lever back to the normal height setting ? If so, the noise it made under these conditions is probably normal (well, normal for a Citroen !)
If it also does it on restarting after leaving the suspension on high for a while with the engine off, it could indicate something as straightforward as the anti-sink sphere needing replacement/re-gassing.
Nick

jack.dempsey · Unread post by **jack.dempsey** » 14 Apr 2003, 19:52

That is entirely possible - it is likely that I did not allow 'full' pressure to develop before selecting 'normal' hight. I didn't know I wasn't suppose to move that lever until pressure was up ! I'll check out this theory tonight and report my findings. It is comforting to note that this is by no means unusual and even though my BX never exhibited any such behavour it may be due to the anti-sink mechanism (which of course the BX did not have). Thanks for that information.

Mark Freeman · Unread post by **Mark Freeman** » 04 May 2003, 03:04

The noise on lowering the suspension is a vibration in hydraulic pipe bolted to the chassis by the gearbox end cover.there was a modification we used at citroen where we rubber mounted the pipe to the chassis - problem solved!

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 05 May 2003, 10:26

Tempted on this topic [:I]
My BX'es also make a groaning noise when lowered from the highest setting. Having done quite a front strut strips & overhauls, I remember that the struts have a compressing rubber bush inside, which compress and press against the outer tube inner wall. When this rubber bush is releasing on "deflating" the height, it must make quite som rubbing noise.
This noise should not be mixed up with a somewhat different groaning, that mat appear during normal drive in drive height. A worn slide bearing in the strut tends to emit groaning & squeaking noises, but intermittent.
The Xantia & XM struts are redesigned (cost-opted ?) compared to BX struts in the production line assembly. The XX struts have the slide bearing pressfitted in the struts outer tube, and secured by a scoring-like process. The slide bearing can then not be removed, making overhauling of these struts impossible to DIY'ers & garages.
AFAIR Pleiades offers rebuild XX struts. How they rebuild these I donno.
I'm still yet to have a XX strut in hands to compare with the BX strut. My idea is to find out if the basic strut is the same outer/fitting dimensions, then simply weld on the XX brackets (for droplinks) to the (empty) BX strut tube, thus making up serviceable XX struts.
On this website :
http://citroeny.cz/servis/servis.htm
you can find more info on the XX struts, revealing the major differences to the BX strut.
The welded on brackets to the XX struts are also the reason why these struts are mirrored to each side, thus having different part no's on each side.

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 05 May 2003, 19:06

Mark, the noise were on about is a lot heavier than could be made by a skinny pipe twaddling about, besides why would one vibrate there anyway and why do we not hear of serious failures of this pipe.
What you've got there are the power steering supply pipe and the main hydraulic feed pipe for the entire brake and suspension system, Iv'e never heard of any such failing, which there surely would be if a major pipe was vibrating uncontrolably.
Why would lowering the suspension cause a pipe to vibrate anyway, I'd like to hear more about this.
Dave

NiSk · Unread post by **NiSk** » 06 May 2003, 02:05

Anders - you're right about the design of the Xantia and XM front struts; but it seems that Citroën have actually improved the strut compard with the old BX type. My XM TD12 is now 9 years old, has done 480,000 km and is still on it's original struts. The wife's Bx however eats struts for breakfast!
//NiSk

Mark Freeman · Unread post by **Mark Freeman** » 06 May 2003, 05:29

I worked for citroen for 10 years and had countless of customers complaining of a loud creaking or buzzing from the front end when lowering.It does sound like a strut noise but the modification worked every time!Has anybody else tried it?

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 06 May 2003, 08:12

Mark -
It seems to be a theory on the fluid returning from the "deflating" strut, making the noise inside the pipe, due to the vast flow speed from the weight of the car [?]
It makes sense that this could make the pipe vibrate at quite high resonance frequency. The pipe is located to chassis by either original nylon/steel clips or repair/nylon strips. This pipe fitting method would inherently transfer the vibrating from the pipe to the chassis, where the sound booms. Isolating the vibrations from the pipe with a rubber grommet or a simple piece of rubber wrapped round the pipe, on these fittings would of course dampen the vibration transfer from pipe to chassis.
Mark -
At time of writing, my BX is left in at a local body repair garage, for some rust repairs on front inner wings, and therefore lots of parts have been removed for access.
Today (tuesday) I receive the car back, and will have to do quite some refitting/antirust proofing work. It would be no problem to simply rework the pipe's fitting with pieces of rubber.
On the BX this would be the pipes to/from both struts to the T-piece under RHS footwell.
I'll further try isolate the T-piece as well.
I'll report back on this.

Dave Burns · Unread post by **Dave Burns** » 06 May 2003, 15:33

I'm not buying that for one minute, for several reasons.
1. The pipes pipes in the region of the gearbox end cover mentioned are not suspension related pipes.
2. Those pipes in the region mentioned will have no extra (or less)fluid movement through them during the lowering of the suspension, because fluid is then returning (through other pipes) where as the pipes in question are only for supplying, steering and main hydraulic feed.
3. The noise in question only (in my experience and on two different cars) occurs during the first few secconds when lowering from the highest position, and EVEN before there is ANY downward movement of the body, where as you would expect the vibrating pipe theory to do just that and vibrate during the entire downward movement of the body.
4. If there was such a vibrating pipe, why didn't the manufacturer find it and do something about it, the last thing they would want are vibrating pipes leading to early failure, possibly during warranty periods.
I never paid much attention to it before as its not a problem of any kind, but I'm sure as hell going to find the bastard now.
Dave

Unread post by **RichardW** » 06 May 2003, 17:26

Dave,
Mine does it too, I have noticed, but I haven't done any tests to see how long after switch off it starts (was adjusting a track rod at the weekend so had it up for about 10 minutes and it did it then). Wasn't until somebody pointed it out that I realised that it only occurs with the engine off. Surely the car should stay in high once the anti-sink valve is closed - maybe there is a 'bypass' on the front so that if you lower the lever the suspension does drop even if the ASV is closed? (Mine stays up at the rear even if you return the lever to normal - it even did this after I left a load of food in the back for a couple of hours then took it all out causing the suspension to rise a lot - wasn't corrected until I started the engine again 3 days later - odd the car going DOWN rather than up on start up!)
I think it is possible it could be fluid return - it is possible that some fluid comes back as the gas in the sphere expands before the car moves, as it will only move when the pressure has dropped low enough to below the car's imposed weight.
Easiest test is going to be to fit the mod to a car with known noise history, and see if it cures it.
Richard