Aircon help, please dont move it to aircon section

wrinklet1 · Post by **wrinklet1** » 24 May 2009, 17:27

Help, I went to kwik fit for an aircon regas and service thingy for £45. They connected my car up( the car was cooling and had gas in it, but I was giving it a treat. They said it would take 45 mins. After it was 'done' they said my system had a leak and their machine wouldnt regas the system.....now I have a hot interior......
Any Ideas???????

Paul

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 24 May 2009, 18:48

Err yes they appear to have drained out whatever gas there was in the system

andycarter · Post by **andycarter** » 24 May 2009, 19:40

I hope they didn't charge you for that!

Try phoning around a few places to find one who can do a nitrogen pressure test.

firstrebel · Post by **firstrebel** » 24 May 2009, 21:21

A proper AC service takes a lot longer than 45 minutes and will cost a lot more than £45. I would take it to a more reputable garage to check it out, and if there is no or insufficient gas in it and there is no leak take the results to Trading Standards.

Bob

wrinklet1 · Post by **wrinklet1** » 24 May 2009, 22:01

Well they didnt charge me. And the guys were polite and so on. But I am thinking of contacting there head office seeing as the system was working. So much for a cool car eh??

Sid_the_Squid · Post by **Sid_the_Squid** » 24 May 2009, 22:25

I had a funny experience at kwik fit on Saturday regarding AC. Went for a re-gas as have found them quite helpful in the past, I could not go to my usual branch as they were 'short staffed' and could not fit a AC re-gas in, so I went to the next nearest branch, anyway long story short they could not use the 'top' refill point as it was to corroded, but would try the 'bottom' refill point, anyway, they re-gas'ed the ac once, decided it was not really cold enough, and asked me if I would not mind waiting for another try, I said sure waited another 45mins, after which they said it was still not really very cold me being the curious type wanted to see for myself, so i go with the kwik fit guy to the car, once inside the car I see that yes indeed the vents are blowing fairly warm air, about to give up and think oh well have to get this 'top' fill up pip fixed somewhere, I catch a look at the AC button, and guess what? Its not pressed!

Thats right, the kwik fit guy had been trying to test my AC without even turning it on!

I pointed out this slight 'oversight', pressed the button, and woosh, inrush of nice cold air.

I paid them the £45 and left. Still my AC works nicely, although strangely enough looking at the sight glass in the dryer bottle I cant see any gas movement

Think I may stay away from Kwik fit for AC stuff in the future.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 24 May 2009, 23:32

Interesting this.

I got a Xantia HDi 110bhp, the Air Con was working but was NOT very cold, as per your car, so I popped to halfords and bought one of the 20 quid top up cans. The compressor was kicking in but not quite enough gas to be ice cold and topped the system up with the can and it went ICE COLD!!

I find the top up cans only seem to work if your compressor still kicks in, if you use a top up can on a system that does not have a workin compressor it doesn't go as cold as a system thats low but kicks the compressor in..

Do you follow this? Its late, if this doesn't make sense.

Paul

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 25 May 2009, 00:09

Your guys have no idea what they are doing if they don't have the air-con even switched on...

But hey at least they are cheap.

You can't charge the system from the "high" side fully, so if your service points are corroded beyond use they wouldn't be able to gas it enough. As for the leak, take a look around and see if you can spot oily connections anywhere. If it's an XM it's probably the evaporator leaking (in which case, burn the car and claim one with non-leaking air-con under insurance). Also being the salty soggy UK, it would probably pay to check the condensor hasn't corroded into a lump of leaky rotten junk.

If it was my car I'd just dump a charge in it.... The reason he didn't regass it is probably because it wouldn't hold a vacuum without dropping on the guages. In which case, yes your gas would have soon leaked away if he added some.

It sounds like your air-con guys know nothing about air-con other than hooking up there recovery machine and letting it run, then dumping more gas in.

seeya,
Shane L.

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 25 May 2009, 06:44

DoubleChevron wrote: It sounds like your air-con guys know nothing about air-con other than hooking up there recovery machine and letting it run, then dumping more gas in.

seeya,
Shane L.

They aren't air-con guys, they are tyre fitters. I'd considered using the service myself, I thought the machine would do the work, but maybe I won't now.

wrinklet1 · Post by **wrinklet1** » 25 May 2009, 10:17

The gauges where according to the guys showing the right settings. And yes they are tyre fitters, I wondered if the car should be running with the aircon turned on for the refill? Halfords regas says you need the aircon on when using a refill.
But, If the system has been vacuumed out, wouldnt the vacuum go if there is a leak?
the guy phoned someone to override the system to put gas in, but it took 2 mins max, and no signs of movement in the sight glass. so I wondered if maybe their machine was either faulty, no gas, or maybe the filling port blocked?????

Paul

VertVega · Post by **VertVega** » 25 May 2009, 12:44

While reading your aircon maintenance experience I couldn't help writing. Don't worry, you are not alone and that does not happen only in UK

I have seen all kinds of puzzled mechanics (or are they kind of trainees?) wondering around the machine, pressing the buttons, searching car data from catalog ...

Actually the whole process is rather simple and straight forward. There are two valves (same type as in tyres) next to aircon compressor for low and high pressure. The automated equipment is connected to them. Refrigerant is removed to the equipment tank. Device weighs the amount. Then the system is dried and at the end a leak test is made. Equipment fills the system (R134a) with the amount which is programmed by the "operator". Oil is also added and optionally a colored substance can be added to reveal possible leaks in the future. Just by coincidence it also happens to be GREEN but not LHM

. It should be this simple. If my memory serves me right the car engine is off during this process which takes about 1 hour.

For example my car with XU engine and compressor SD7V16 needs refrigerant 875 gr (+/- 25 gr).

h2ocooler · Post by **h2ocooler** » 26 May 2009, 00:01

My Mate use to be able to do AC at the last place he worked, the unit he used the car had to be running when the gas was put in or it would short fill it, he did mine a few times (different cars) and was always icy when he had done it, shame he cant still do it.
Once when he tried to do my old Omega it removed the gas and vacumed it out but wouldnt put any in, turned out it was because there wasnt enough gas in the machine to refill it, wouldnt even let him put the recovered gas back!!!!!!!
Rob

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 26 May 2009, 02:43

I don't know about your area, but around here they won't charge if they don't reduce your vent temperature by a certain amount, hence why they measure the temp before they start.
Basically your A/C system had a leak, but not enough to lose all the gas.
Their machine did it's job and discovered the leak, no point re-gassing a leaky system.
You now need to take it to an A/C speacialist to get the leak found and repaired.
If they charged you, then write to them requesting a refund as they failed to regas your system.

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 26 May 2009, 04:29

wrinklet1 wrote:The gauges where according to the guys showing the right settings. And yes they are tyre fitters, I wondered if the car should be running with the aircon turned on for the refill? Halfords regas says you need the aircon on when using a refill.
But, If the system has been vacuumed out, wouldnt the vacuum go if there is a leak?
the guy phoned someone to override the system to put gas in, but it took 2 mins max, and no signs of movement in the sight glass. so I wondered if maybe their machine was either faulty, no gas, or maybe the filling port blocked?????

Paul

He is full of sh!t. If the air-con wasn't switched on, he wouldn't have been able to draw any gas in the suction side, and both guages would have read whatever static pressure the system is (rather than 30'ish low side, 100+ high side).

the site glass doesn't mean anything when using R134a... Just ignore it.

If one of the service ports was blocked, the guage on that side would show zero. Simply put, they have no idea.

To get a system that is two low on gas to allow the compressor to start to draw in gas (Note: If the system has been opened you MUST change the R/D and vacuum it down to boil off any moisture), you need to bridge the pressure switch, this will allow the compressor to start and draw refrigerant in.

seeya,
Shane L.

andycarter · Post by **andycarter** » 26 May 2009, 08:51

Hi Shane

I'm puzzled by your last comment about bridging the pressure switch.

After vacuuming the system - the pressure switch would be open circuit anyway, regardless of how much gas was in it at the start. So is this step necessary in 100% of cases or is it a red-herring.

Thanks
Andy