HDi engine and stop-go driving...

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ianckt739
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HDi engine and stop-go driving...

Post by ianckt739 »

Having recently unclogged a rather badly fouled C3 1.4 HDi 16V EGR valve I got to wondering about the type of driving most likely to clog it all up again.

I have read that short journeys clog engines up and that a long motorway drive tends to clean them out. My daily rounds lie somewhere in the middle though.

I live in a semi rural area and travel around a lot for work. Most of the work is based across a city (Newcastle) about 20 miles away and around where I live so the route to and from the city is my most well-trodden path. Not that far to travel but in terms of journey time the car gets plenty of opportunity to get to operating temperature (the journey takes 45+ minutes each way).

Most of the route takes me through lots of towns and villages with traffic lights, roadworks, roundabouts and lots and lots of congestion - the usual suspects - and only the odd 2-3 miles of dual carriageway giving a minute or so of 60mph plus speeds.

So what are everyone's opinions - is it the length of the journey or the speed of the journey that is likely to clog things up the most? Or as I suspect more of a combination of the two...
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Post by myglaren »

Couldn't say with any accuracy.

I drive four miles to work and the same back, do a few trips of <15 miles and the occasional ±600 round trip.

My son does very much the same in his 306 D-Turbo.

Every now and then we blast down to Catterick or thereabouts when the A1 is quiet and we can maintain a decent speed for the 80 mile round trip.
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Post by lolingram »

Having recently unclogged a rather badly fouled C3 1.4 HDi 16V EGR valve I got to wondering about the type of driving most likely to clog it all up again.
Try disconnecting the small rubber actuator pipe from the valve - the EMC chip may give a fault condition (it doesn't on my HDi Xant). If the management sys allows this, the EGR clog up should be a thing of the past, plus slightly improved MPG and nicer low end response.
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Post by ianckt739 »

I had considered this but when I tried it briefly, although I got no fault lights, there was a distinct lack of power. Not sure if this indicates a fault somewhere else. On re-connecting it however all seems normal again.
01 (Y) F**d Mondeo 2.0 TDDi (Non French I know... when will I learn?)

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1997 Peugeot 406 1.9 TD
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Post by lolingram »

I had considered this but when I tried it briefly, although I got no fault lights, there was a distinct lack of power. Not sure if this indicates a fault somewhere else. On re-connecting it however all seems normal again.
Strange... this should leave the EGR valve permanently shut. Others agree?
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
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Post by JamesQB »

Did you blank off the open-end of the pipe, though? Would have had a vacuum leak otherwise which may have affected the operation of the turbo variable vane mechanism?

As you know, I've blanked off the vacuum pipe on mine after disconnecting it from the EGR actuator because it seems the solenoid valve is leaking vacuum constantly, keeping the EGR open. Since doing that, the car is running more smoothly and power has increased most noticeably in the lower end.

With the vacuum pipe removed, the EGR should remain closed.
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Post by ianckt739 »

I used a flat headed screw to block the end of the vacuum hose. Perhaps I need to remove it for a little more cleaning then...
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Post by JamesQB »

Bear in mind my experience with the EGR disabled may not apply to a C3 that actually works. The fact that at least 1 of the injectors (or all) is buggered means the engine isn't running properly anyway, so the way mine runs without the EGR seems better but may have left the car in a state that you've experienced - beneath par. I wouldn't notice because of its fault, and it could have just improved a struggling engine.

As Mick pointed out to me on the phone, the EGR should be reconnected after the solenoids and injector(s) are sorted because otherwise the ECU is going to receive information from sensors that doesn't add up to what it's expecting, because some of the airflow into the manifold should be accounted for by exhaust gas.

Might be wise to ensure your EGR solenoid isn't leaking vacuum, just in case it is the precursor to injector problems like I'm suffering. One has to ask how this has all happened and what caused what, or if it's coincidence...but one thing's been proven, and that's that the solenoid was leaking vacuum, evidenced by the significant improvement now it's disconnected. The C3 HDi Mick was working on also had EGR and turbo solenoids leaking and duff injectors. Coincidence or...
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Post by ianckt739 »

I see what you mean about not noticing a lack of performance when it's not working properly to begin with but this was completely lacking in power. I had to have the revs so high to accelerate I was in second gear at 40mph! As I say, now it's connected again all appears well.

I cleaned it out today again just to make sure it's not stuck open and made sure the valve opened/closed freely while removed from the engine. Now that I know it's not stuck open I'll try temporarily disabling it again just to see how it behaves, if there's any dramatic change I'll check the solenoid vacuum. If not I'll reconnect it to keep the sensors etc happy.
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Post by JamesQB »

If it helps, I used the shank of a drillbit of the right diameter and a tiny jubilee clip to block off the vacuum pipe once disconnected.

Out of interest, could you still feel the turbo kicking in at any point? And as a comparison with my bag o'nails, when do you feel yours come in? Mine's at about 2300rpm.
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Post by ianckt739 »

No there was definitely no turbo, think maybe I hadn't blocked the vacuum thoroughly enough...

Coincidentally I did find that the vacuum hose to the wastegate wasn't properly fitting so I've made an adjustment to that.

Oh and the turbo seems to kick in usually at the same speed as yours. Makes trying to keep it under 2200 for fuel economy a bit boring!!
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Post by broyty »

Hi
It sounds like you have got vacume problems on your c3 as the turbo should start working a lot lower than 22-2300 rpm the one we have here had the turbo and egr solonoid valves replaced as they were faulty internaly no direct codes were present as they were working electrically
the egr solonoid leaks to the egr valve holding the valve slightly open and the turbo solonoid leaks to atmosphere leading to the turbo becoming sluggish this is a verry common problem on all late psa hdi cars with these solonoids fitted
in 99% of poor running hdi cars these solonoid valves are at fault it is the seals inside these valves that fail i have dismantled many of these and they all have the same fault worn seals which cannot be replaced as they are moulded
Mick
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Post by ianckt739 »

I'll have to do a vacuum test then I guess. I thought it was a bit high but the strength once it does come in seems fine so I never thought anything of it.
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Post by h2ocooler »

Rather than taking the EGR out of the system, a very well respected and knowlegable Diesel fitter near me parted with this little gem to a mate of mine with a coked up and very smokey transit.
Once a week at least take a diesel car on the motorway/dual carrageway, and hold it in 2nd or 3rd gear at the rev limiter for at least half a mile to a mile, it WONT damage the engine, that is what the limiter is for, i had a diesel escort van at the time and used to cane the ass off it all the time, looking at the exhaust there was very little soot in mine, my mates transit however was coated with 2-3mm as he treated it like a baby, always short shifting and only ever going 55mph max, he took the advice and i looked a few weeks later and most of the soot had gone, he also said it was running much better with hardly and smoke.
With turbo diesels if they dont get to rev out all they do is produce soot from incomplete combustion with the EGR valve making it worse (it recycles exhaust gas to reduce the amount of O2 in the cylinder charge to reduce emmissions)
DO make sure your engine is well maintained with regular oil changes/cambelt done on time air filter changed etc etc etc.
Rob
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Post by admiral51 »

h2ocooler wrote:Rather than taking the EGR out of the system, a very well respected and knowlegable Diesel fitter near me parted with this little gem to a mate of mine with a coked up and very smokey transit.
Once a week at least take a diesel car on the motorway/dual carrageway, and hold it in 2nd or 3rd gear at the rev limiter for at least half a mile to a mile, it WONT damage the engine, that is what the limiter is for, i had a diesel escort van at the time and used to cane the ass off it all the time, looking at the exhaust there was very little soot in mine, my mates transit however was coated with 2-3mm as he treated it like a baby, always short shifting and only ever going 55mph max, he took the advice and i looked a few weeks later and most of the soot had gone, he also said it was running much better with hardly and smoke.
With turbo diesels if they dont get to rev out all they do is produce soot from incomplete combustion with the EGR valve making it worse (it recycles exhaust gas to reduce the amount of O2 in the cylinder charge to reduce emmissions)
DO make sure your engine is well maintained with regular oil changes/cambelt done on time air filter changed etc etc etc.
Rob
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