C5 Review

blueboy2001 · Unread post by **blueboy2001** » 02 Apr 2003, 22:48

During the forums enforced absence, I decided that I had better go and get a new car as I wouldn't have anywhere to air the troubles my old Xantia might throw up [:)]
I had a look round the Citroen website at approved used C5's, I was looking for something about 12 months old with about 10-12k on the clock. I went to a dealer about 30 miles away as I have a friend in the sales department and he showed me a couple of nearly new cars - a 2.0HDi 110SX and a 2.2HDi Exclusive. He let me take them both out for a couple hours and I gave them both a good run along motorways, and a variety of different roads.
The 2.0 was no slouch, but at times did feel like it was being pushed, and at idle I could tell it was a diesel and at high revs it did emit a dieselefied growl into the car. This car also seemed a lot looser in the handling department, with a tendancy to float a bit when it hit a bump mid bend. The steering felt quite direct, and better weighted at speed than the Xantia but still had a numbness that seems to afflict most modern cars.
I had driven the 2.0HDi's before when I'd been loaned them whilst by Xsara was having warranty work undertaken, so I had a good idea what to expect. I went back and swapped the keys for the 2.2 exclusive.
First impression - fake wood is very tacky and I couldn't find the bar to adjust the seat. That would be because their isn't one - all the controls are electric down the side of the seat. After fumbling about for a few minutes with the seat flying in all directions except the way I wanted it I bit the bullet and had to kneel beside the car and try and adjust the seat from there! I also had a good look at the leather on the seats which seemed a bit papery and cheap - certainly didn't look like it would stand 196K's worth of useage without looking worn like the Xantia cloth has done.
I drove the car off the forecourt and as soon as I touched the throttle it pulled away right from very low revs. When I stopped at the lights I thought I'd stalled it as I couldn't hear the engine. I lowered the windows and I could hear a low pitched hum, but no more - couldn't tell it was a diesel engine really. The most striking thing was just how easy the car is to drive - with the Xantia I found myself watching the rev counter to try and keep the revs in the range of the turbo, with the C5 it'll pull from anywhere above idle to about 4500RPM where the power seems to begin to tail off. The engine never seems to become excessively noisy - even at high revs.
This car seemed to handle better than the 2.0litre, it felt more planted on the road and the suspension didn't seem to roll at all, but the ride was still real magic carpet stuff. This car has the Hydractive 3+ auto adaptive system with Sport mode - the 2.0SX does not have this - which probably accounts for the better handling, it was also fitted with ESP and Traction Control. I had read somewhere that these cars are susceptible to crosswinds and can be unstable at speed - it was a windy, rainy day and driving on the exposed section of the M6 around the Thelwall Viaduct at 3 figure speeds I couldn't seem to create it even when trying to provoke it.
I went back and talked to the dealer and his prices - £12,995 for the used 2.0, and £15,995 for the exclusive (after negotitation, they were higher on the screen) both cars about 6 months old with 7k and 6k respectively seemed dear, particularly as I didn't really want leather, but I fancied cruise control, traction control and the 2.2 engine. I looked in a brochure and noticed the 2.2HDi in SX trim included ESP, Traction, Cruise, and Hydractive 3+ with Sport mode - these are not part of the SX trim with the other engines - I asked if they had any of them. They had one in the showroom in Storm Gray (horrible colour), but it was new and unregistered. I then asked for a price on a new 2.2HDi SX - he was working it out from the list price less the £2k cashback, less £500 because I had no p/x. I had decided I was having it at this point, expecting him to quote the price, then he took another £1500 off from nowhere and then fumbled in his desk drawer and said I could have finance on it a 2% due to a Citroen special offer. I snapped his hand off and said I wanted it in Icelandic Grey (which is actually blue!)
I must admit I do like the C5's interior - the shape of it is modern and everything has its place and it all blends together. I much prefered the sliver trim in the SX to the fake wood in the exclusive. There are bits of storage everywhere - trays under the seats, drawers in the doors, a lockable drivers glovebox complete with sunglasses holder and change holders, the normal glovebox is a decent size unlike the Xantia, the instruments are well laid out and plentiful, and the multifuction display displays a plethora of occasionally useful information. All the cars have the useful Trafficmaster system integrated which is useful.
Personally I've found the seats very comfortable - there is actually some give in them unlike a lot of cars eg. Vauxhalls. The seats hold well enough, although bigger sides would hold better in sharp bends. The front seat armrests are great with loads of height adjustment and long enough for you to rest your arm on comfortably while driving. Only disadvantage of the is access to the handbrake is a little restricted with it down. The seat backs gou much higher than the Xantia which is better for those 6ft+, and the head restraints offer a lot more adjustment.
The interior feels a lot more spacious than the Xantia, width wise theres probably not much in it, but there is a lot more room in the back. The best thing about the rear space is the lack of a huge tunnel between the rear seats which renders the centre seat useless except for small kids. I've had 3 big men in the back of mine driving to a meeting last week and they all commented on how roomy it is.
The C5 has plenty of electrical trickery. The Climate control is excellent, on a warm day is cools the car quickly without the blower being on full blast. The independant controls for the driver and passenger side of the vehicle are good if, as I do, you have a passenger who like to have the heater on full blast whenever the temperature drops below 20 degrees! The automatic lights and wipers are a nice touch, but the windows closing at the first sign of rain could be irritating (although all these things can be switched off free of charge on request). The trip computer is useful but I'm not sure if its entirely accurate - its showing fuel consumption around the 36.5MPG mark now, my own calculations suggest between 39 and 41 which I'm very pleased with considering they take 3k to run in properly.
This will be the 3rd new Citroen I've bought and all the others have had to go back inside the first couple of weeks for a niggling fault or rattle. I've had the C5 nearly 3 weeks and not heard so much as a squeak from the trim - the quality of which is far superior to any other Ctiroen, and it seems very well screwed together. My 2 previous Xsara's had a similar electrical system and proved very reliable, so far so good with the C5. The C5 has a "normal" braking system, so the hydraulics only feed the suspension and steering which should reduce load on the pump and make the whole system less troublesome. Mechanical height correctors are out, replaced with electrical sensors (which if no more reliable, should be easier to change) and the spheres are different and will last the life of the car. The pump is electrical and not belt driven, so the car self levels with the ignition off. There is no clunking from the suspension on my car as has been suggested by some people.
So far I'm very happy with it. I'm taking it for its 1500 mile check on Friday, then its going on a 1000 mile trek to France next week with 5 adults on board, and hopefully a load of duty free on the way back!
C5 Likes
2.2HDi engine - torquey, smooth, refined, quiet
Equipment Levels
Price
Comfort
Fuel Economy
C5 Dislikes
No fore/aft adjustment on drivers seat bottom cushion
Numb steering
Lack of rear visibility when reverse parking (Im getting sensors fitted)

pwatson · Unread post by **pwatson** » 03 Apr 2003, 00:40

Excellent, informative review - hope the C5 serves you well. I also had a test drive in the 2.2 HDi and was mighty impressed but it was outside our price range so got a Xantia HDi exclusive instead - but in a couple of years when good second hand ones come on the market......

bencowell · Unread post by **bencowell** » 05 Apr 2003, 16:09

Cheers mate, thats a good review, Could you please keep us updated.
Ben

blueboy2001 · Unread post by **blueboy2001** » 06 Apr 2003, 01:25

I will keep this updated if anything of note happens.
Yesterday I dumped the car at the best Citroen dealer in the area for its 1500 mile check over. I was asked if I had anything to report, said no and the service bloke said they see very few complaints with the latest cars due to refinements made to the production process. Service was excellent, I was even offered a lift back to work but I had arranged a lift myself.
I decided last week, having attempted to reverse park in a tight space, that I would price up some parking sensors. Looking at the profile of the back of the car, there is a fair distance from the back of the screen to the edge of the bumper and one day when in a rush there would be a good chance I'd touch something. I was quoted £128 for the kit, plus 2 hours labour to drill the bumper and fit them - £94. Seeing as this is probably less than the cost of a repair I decided to get them. The service bloke said they do an offer where they do the kit at trade price if you pay the labour, so the whole job costs £194 inc VAT. I asked if they could fit them while it was in, but they didn't have a suitable kit in stock but they will have one in for Monday. A free courtesy car will be available, I asked what it would be as I don't fit in Saxo's and he said he'll let me have his C5 for the day which is the same spec as mine, and funnily enough has parking sensors fitted!
Went to pick the car up this morning and they found no problems with it, it hasn't used any oil. I asked about the slight inaccuracy in the fuel computer and was told they are generally pretty good, and asked if I had reset it yet. I haven't, and they said if the dealers had it left idling in the workshop or started it to move it 10ft several times then initially it will read very low because there will have been a quantity of fuel used but no mileage covered and the computer simply divides the mileage covered by the amount of fuel used. Sounded quite plausible to me, so I've reset it and its now reading about 40MPG which seems more like it.
I'm still very happy with the car - managed to show a colleague in a Mondeo TDCi a thing or two when he tried to overtake me on a slip road onto the motorway the other day - the only view of the C5 he go to see was the back bumper

bencowell · Unread post by **bencowell** » 06 Apr 2003, 17:47

Thats funny, a Ford dealer told me that the Mondeo TDCI has faster in-gear performance than every other car its size.
Someone must be full of bulls**t. I doubt it is one of my Citroen driving chums.
Ben

jeremy · Unread post by **jeremy** » 07 Apr 2003, 05:04

Isn't this a case of the old saying - 'there's no substitute for litres' (or to quote the modern version - size does matter!)
Seriously ins't the Mondeo new tech 2 litre and the C5 not quite so new 2.2 litre, both producing similar figures?
jeremy

bencowell · Unread post by **bencowell** » 08 Apr 2003, 01:46

The C5 has 136 bhp@4000rpm and 237 lbft@2000rpm.
The Mondeo has 128 bhp@3800rpm and 243 lbft@1800rpm.
The C5 reaches 60 in 10.9 and tops 127.
The Mondeo reaches 60 in 9.9 and tops 124.
Diesel Car magazine shows the Mondeo to be faster at 30-50 and 50-70 by about 2 seconds.
I prefer the C5 however, nothing is said about gearing, but the 2.2 HDI is supposed to be smoother than the 2.0 TDCI.
Ben

akojic · Unread post by **akojic** » 10 Apr 2003, 16:05

I'd like to know how many spheres there are on C5. Is there variety in hidractive system on different models (equipment) as it is in Xantia case?

alexx · Unread post by **alexx** » 10 Apr 2003, 16:25

HA3 system = 4 spheres
HA3+ system = 6 spheres
And additional one, very small, inside BHI module
HA3+ is true hydractive system, like HA2, with soft and hard mode.
HA3(-) is in fact not hydractive

pete woods · Unread post by **pete woods** » 10 Apr 2003, 20:07

Take a look at www.c5-faults.com There is a comments section where other owners have aired their thoughts.
I hope the recent cars have improved as it makes uncomfortable reading!

blueboy2001 · Unread post by **blueboy2001** » 10 Apr 2003, 21:52

I've just returned from a 1100 mile business trip to Nantes. Called into the local Citroen dealership near Nantes which was reccomended as being cheap and offering excellent service. I wanted a set of rear mats (front are standard equipment on the SX) and had been quoted £27.50 in the UK, this place had them in stock for about £14. I asked about parking sensors and was quoted £134 parts and labour - bits were in stock and they would do the job inside the next 2 hours as they were not busy. A minor service over there is £80 compared with £140 here.
Went back to pick it up 2 1/2 hours later - job done, he'd put the mats in and washed it and hoovered the interior because the valeter wasn't doing anything! The sensors are fitted perfectly - the job requires the bumper to be drilled but you would never know it.
Still made up with mine - no faults and I've got 48MPG from the motorway runs I've done on the last trip.

bencowell · Unread post by **bencowell** » 11 Apr 2003, 12:18

Do the French garages treat you better if you speak French?

DLM · Unread post by **DLM** » 11 Apr 2003, 15:30

In my experience they appreciate an effort at the very least. Last year I managed to communicate despite the fact that I kept on referring (in French) to a familiar assembly on a BX as an octopus when the French convention is to call it a spider!
Some things are truly universal - including the sound of teeth-sucking!
Of course, this refers to repairs, but detailed menu pricing on Citroens is more common than in the UK from what I saw at a large Citroen dealership, and at least gives you the opportunity to study it at leisure before enquiring. This outfit referred me on to their local, more old-fashioned, neighbouring dealership who were more oriented towards repairs than they were. Prices didn't seem that cheap but it was expensive Biarritz...
David

pwatson · Unread post by **pwatson** » 12 Apr 2003, 00:13

Well my French is pretty rudimentary but I doo try! Last October went to main dealer in Rennes because a van had reversed into us and pushed in a front foglight on our Xantia - they spent half an hour repairing it - for free. Also mentioned that the back of the car had converted into a swimming pool (piscine) but the guy said they weren't carosserie (bodywork ) specialists so I should go to Citroen Sud the other side of town. It was a huge main dealer. Went to a desk and explained and a charming mechanic replaced the drain tube for the sunroof. It took him about an hour what with removing the roof lining, testing etc. When I asked him how much he said "nothing"-it's all part of the service! I also noticed that the labour charges were less than £40 per hour. May well get car seviced there when I return - (might it be for free?????)

bencowell · Unread post by **bencowell** » 12 Apr 2003, 02:35

My first visit to the dealer I presently use for my Xsara was in Dec 01 when I visited to get the tracking checked (as I had visited a rather large pot hole), headlamps adjusted and clutch cable checked as the clutch was stiff.
The dealer found nothing wrong, except a small adjustment on the lights.
An hours work, price £Nil.
Needless to say I used them again, and they have treated me fairly.
Ben