Electric Buffs out there: S2 Xantia TD strange problem

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Electric Buffs out there: S2 Xantia TD strange problem

Post by citroenxm »

Hi All

Your thoughts on this: Ive a 1998 S reg Xantia S2 TD Estate in, with Air Con.. Firstly, the cooling fans didn't work, but I sorted that to a break in TWO wires behind the passenger headlight, so got them going...

However, prior to this, I gassed the Air Con up, and with the Dash Switch onthe compressor and fans DO NOT kick in...

The blower DOES NOT work unless its ONLY on full speed... and its ONLY when the blower in the car clicks on full speed does the Compressor AND cooling fans switch on....

As soon as I slide it to AUTO, the blower stops and so does the air con compressor and fans..

To me it looks like the blower is controlling the compressir / fans too.. which it shouldn't, as the many S2 cars Ive seen does not do this..

Does anyone have a NON HAYNES wireing diagram for the Blower and Air con system, or even a solution...

Cheers guys!

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
Citroenmad
Posts: 8125
Joined: 04 Dec 2008, 22:08
Location: Northeast
My Cars: 07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
x 110

Post by Citroenmad »

Could be the fan control relay or something like that?

Usually on cars with manual air con, when the fan is turned to off the air con does not run, so as the fan is off apart from on full speed the air con wont be coming on?

Sounds possible anyway

Chris.
Chris
07 Citroen C6 V6 HDi Exclusive - Red
07 Citroen C5 HDi VTR - Red
09 Citroen C3 1.4i VTR - Silver
01 Citroen Saxo 1.1i Forte - Mango Orange
.
93 Ford Mondeo 2.0i GLX
19 Hyundai i10
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Hi..AS I said. I DO NOT turn the fan off... I put it in AUTO!!

The fan only works in MAX SPEED... Its an Auto Climate system... not a manual system...

I HAVE had compressors and cooling fans working even when the BLOWER does not... with the slider in the AUTO position...


Rgds
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
admiral51
Donor 2023
Posts: 2625
Joined: 24 May 2007, 10:11
Location: poole dorset uk
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: C5 X7 2009 2.0 HDI VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
C4 2010 2.0 HDi Exclusive VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
x 378

Post by admiral51 »

Hi Paul

I know most of this relates to S1 but in this thread Clogzz has got some wiring diagrams etc
Hope this helps

Colin
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Re: Electric Buffs out there: S2 Xantia TD strange problem

Post by CitroJim »

citroenxm wrote: Does anyone have a NON HAYNES wireing diagram for the Blower and Air con system, or even a solution...
The diagram I have Paul :D It is here. It's the Australian version but it'll be fine if you look at it upside down :lol:

The solution? 'Fraid not, just yet :( I'll sleep on it...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
admiral51
Donor 2023
Posts: 2625
Joined: 24 May 2007, 10:11
Location: poole dorset uk
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: C5 X7 2009 2.0 HDI VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
C4 2010 2.0 HDi Exclusive VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
x 378

Post by admiral51 »

Another thought Paul
As its S2 if you set it to demist windscreen the A/C should kick as i believe this is its default setting thereby setting the fans spinning at slow speed this should happen wether internal fan is on manual speed or auto (i think)

As the temperature control is all done by ECU i would hazard a guess that one or more ECUs are not getting the correct information but i have been known to be wrong in the past :)

Colin
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Re: Electric Buffs out there: S2 Xantia TD strange problem

Post by citroenxm »

CitroJim wrote:
citroenxm wrote: Does anyone have a NON HAYNES wireing diagram for the Blower and Air con system, or even a solution...
The diagram I have Paul :D It is here. It's the Australian version but it'll be fine if you look at it upside down :lol:

The solution? 'Fraid not, just yet :( I'll sleep on it...
Jim..

Cheers, made it a UK one now, the correct way up :lol: Do you also have a FULL key for it too????? Thanks

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Hi Paul,

The full key can be found in the back of the Xantia BoL, there's pages of them, just ahead of their wiring diagrams.

The key holds good across the entire range and is good from beginning to end of production.

let me know if you need the full key and I'll scan it although it's a big job!
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

Jim your new avitar should have bin whilst my jalopy was sitting on your drive, then viewers would think they were seeing double

TEA HE

regards malcolm
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

CitroJim wrote:Hi Paul,

The full key can be found in the back of the Xantia BoL, there's pages of them, just ahead of their wiring diagrams.

The key holds good across the entire range and is good from beginning to end of production.

let me know if you need the full key and I'll scan it although it's a big job!

Ah its the same stuff then! okay, that should keep me quiet this weekend! IF ITS DRY!!

paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Hi...

Im on another scrounge now.. The BoL has NOT got a BLOWER diagram for an Air Con car, just a manual system...

The Air Con diagram Jim gave me conflicts with the blower circuit in the BoL, Jim, have you a better diagram of the blower system WITH AirCon..??

Many thanks

PAul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

I'll look into it Paul,

I'll get the exact one for your car. BoL diagrams are generic. Mine are from an, erm, more accurate source :wink:
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
User avatar
Clogzz
Posts: 2115
Joined: 15 May 2005, 18:04
Location: Australia
My Cars:
x 36
Contact:

Post by Clogzz »

If the blower doesn’t spin for reasons of its own, the ECU won’t know, and will allow the aircon to run.
If the blower is stopped because of inputs from the ECU, then it will prevent the aircon from running.
Map of the internals of the transistorised blower below.

Image
2002 C5 2.0i AL4 230,000 km 76372389
citroenxm
Posts: 8061
Joined: 30 Dec 2004, 23:10
Location: Somewhere in North Wales, Anglesey
My Cars: M reg Xm S2 2.1td Auto Exclusive. 269k and rising
L reg XM S1 V6 12v Manual SEi
L 94 XM 2.1 TD auto total resto

2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Hi clogzz
Thanks! So try a different transister board?? Ive got a couple of spare ones which I have no reason to beleve they are buggered.. as they come out of cars that I have later learnt they were Relay/ignition switch issues...

Cheers

Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
User avatar
Clogzz
Posts: 2115
Joined: 15 May 2005, 18:04
Location: Australia
My Cars:
x 36
Contact:

Post by Clogzz »

Yes, because that will be the simplest to try first.
There still is a coherent action in that the aircon only comes on when the blower spins.

Top speed of the blower is the small relay bypassing the regulating transistors.
Input 3, called TDRV, operates the relay, and also goes straight to the transistor bases.
The input on pin 3 sets the speed, with 12V closing the relay, and turning off the transistors.
That can be measured by going through the manual speed settings.

It looks like your transistors do nothing.
Usually, the transistors go short, and the blower is flat-out before you turn the key to the starter.
Our tribal elder Jim has posted a list of voltages, probably in a ‘sticky’, but I haven’t found it yet.
2002 C5 2.0i AL4 230,000 km 76372389
Post Reply