Anti-Sink & Regulator Spheres

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Anti-Sink & Regulator Spheres

Post by xmexclusive » 21 Apr 2009, 15:14

Hi All

Anyone know if XM's use the same Anti-Sink and Regulator Spheres as Xantias?

Thanks

John

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CitroJim
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Post by CitroJim » 21 Apr 2009, 19:38

Not 100% sure about the anti-sink but certainly the accumulator sphers are identical.

Even if the XM anti-sink is a little different, provided the XM uses the same fitting as the Xantia (small pipe on a union-nut into a thtreaded hole in the sphere), I'm sure the'll do.

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Post by Citroenmad » 21 Apr 2009, 20:53

We had a new antisink valve on our Xm last week, it didnt make any difference. However now its fixed itself, so chances are the old valve is fine anyway. £100 wasted then :roll:

I would think there is very little difference in that between the Xantia one, although i could be wrong.

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Post by xmexclusive » 23 Apr 2009, 19:10

Hi All

Have now collected the job lot of NOS Xantia Anti-sink spheres for use on my XM's. Have now found the spheres section of the Citroen maintenance summary. There are a few differences, all rather strange and I just need to find the XM sphere part number to complete the research. The technical spec gives the same physical fixings, same capacity 400cc, same pressure 50psi plus 5 minus 20, no damper, same reference number 96145672 with a note saying that this is not the reorder number. The only difference quoted was that the Xantia sphere should be Desmopan and the XM sphere to be Urepan. Only have Xantia spheres to check at the moment but the one I opened was in a factory sealed box marked 5293.03 while the sphere inside had 96145672 printed on it. Anyone able to tell me how the membrane type is checked and suggest why on earth Citroen would change just that in the spec between car types.

John

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Post by CitroJim » 24 Apr 2009, 07:17

Hi John,

I believe the Desmopan spheres have three "dimples" around the filling orifice whereas the Urepan ones don't.

The Desmopan ones seem to hold their pressure for longer and most late hydractive centre spheres appear to be of this type. The have, I understand, a three-layer membrane, hense the better pressure retention.

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Post by xmexclusive » 24 Apr 2009, 09:04

Hi Jim

Box says Desmopan on the printed label, sphere has no dimples, have just double checked and am satisfied that the box was factory sealed before I opened it. Sphere itself has both black printing and stamping marks on it. Stamping was done prior to painting and consists of two sets of Citroen Arrow logo, S92, 50, D. The black printing consists of 96145672, 4 - 114 -, FA.

Box label is Sphere Anti_AFF, (DESMOPAN), SAUF HYDRACTIVE, SAUF PAYS CHAUDS/GRANDS FROIDS, XANTIA BL/BK, 400CM3/50 BARS 9812, 5293.03

If anyone can translate/decode this for me it might prove useful in adding to my understanding. Will try to remember to check and record the details of the other original spheres before separating them from their boxes.

John

John

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Post by Citroenmad » 24 Apr 2009, 09:52

CitroJim wrote:Hi John,

I believe the Desmopan spheres have three "dimples" around the filling orifice whereas the Urepan ones don't.

The Desmopan ones seem to hold their pressure for longer and most late hydractive centre spheres appear to be of this type. The have, I understand, a three-layer membrane, hense the better pressure retention.
I believe your correct, three layer diaphram spheres have the three dimples.

They hold their pressure much better than normal spheres. Our 94 Xm has them on the front, for some reason look to have been there from new, however when pressure tested they are still at the correct pressure.

Same kind of diaphram used in C5s, hence the longer sphere life.

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Post by xmexclusive » 24 Apr 2009, 10:56

Hi Jim & Citroenmad

This batch seems not to comply with that rule. It is not just one sphere but a batch of six all were boxed new. Where is your source for your infomation on spheres? Did Citroen issue a technical note when they brought in Desmopan ones? Any other sources you can think of that might help me track this one down?

Thanks for any help, much appreciated.

John
Last edited by xmexclusive on 25 Apr 2009, 14:31, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by Pleiades » 24 Apr 2009, 12:47

I cant realy help with the types of diaphragm, Citroen have used all sorts of different materials over the years, they tend to reccomend certain types for cold climates.

The anti sink sphere is the same for the XM and Xantia, it does not matter what the diaphragm is made from, it's only the size and pressure thats important, 400cc 50- pressure

Regards
Martin.

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Post by Clogzz » 24 Apr 2009, 14:01

translate/decode
Sphere Anti_AFF is anti-affaissement, meaning anti-sink.
Desmopan is a rubbery looking diaphragm, and so is Urepan.
The dimpled sphere is multi-layered, with a clear plastic-like diaphragm.
Sauf hydractive means except hydractive.
Sauf pays chauds/grands froids means except hot/very cold countries.
Xantia BL/BK, don’t know.
400CM3/50 BARS is capacity and pressure.
9812, 5293.03, sort of a part number.

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Post by xmexclusive » 24 Apr 2009, 22:26

Hi Martin & Clogzz

Thanks for those bits of information, very useful in adding to my understanding. As I get round to refurbishing my spare rear subframes I will be able to fit nice shiny new anti-sink spheres without worrying if I really should be fitting Xantia ones to XM's. Going to have to buy some 4.5mm pipe and a flaring tool from you Martin still at least the spheres came cheap.

This batch of six genuine Citroen DESMOPAN spheres do not have the three dimples present on them so the theory may no be right that the dimples are a marker to indicate membrane type. Perhaps the dimples are simply a particular manufacturers way of trademarking their spheres because Citroen seldom seem to allow supplier branding of components.

John

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Post by Clogzz » 25 Apr 2009, 13:45

Hi John,

The Desmopan sphere never has the dimples.
It’s a sphere to fit in cool places, like under the rear of the car, where they’re always in the shade and in the breeze.
The accumulator also lives in a place where it doesn’t get too hot, and hasn’t got the dimples either.
The dimpled sphere has a so-called ‘multi-layered’ diaphragm with a clear plastic-like look, and has a fairly limited flexion.
The dimpled multi-layered sphere is used on top of front struts, where it gets quite hot.
More recent multi-layered spheres are wider to make up for the reduced flexion of the diaphragm.

Image Image

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Post by xmexclusive » 25 Apr 2009, 14:39

Hi Clogzz

Thanks, at this rate you will soon have me fluent in green balls.

John

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Post by CitroJim » 25 Apr 2009, 17:44

Indeed Clogzz, you talk balls but very fluently and accurately :lol: 8)

Thanks muchly for that. I always believed desmopan spheres were the three layer ones :oops: One lives and learns!

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Post by Clogzz » 26 Apr 2009, 17:24

Thanks John and Jim ! :D :D

I learned about green balls when new rear sphere boxes said “Urepan – very hot and very cold countries”.
A mechanic at the time showed me old black rubbery diaphragms that had turned to goo.
He also had three-layered clear-coloured diaphragms that looked like they operated more like speaker cones than rubber membranes.
The three-layered diaphragms don’t like it cold, and aren’t used under the car, where in areas of the Nordic countries they may be in the frost for weeks on end.

We discussed diaphragms on Aussiefrogs with Simon Mandrake at the time, with links to the manufacturers; Bayer and Rhein Chemie; but I can’t dig up the topics because it’s become too slow there with animated advertising. :evil:
You may soon have Simon crawling under your cars, because the last he posted is that he was going to live in the UK. :lol: