C5 2.0 HDI starting problems

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
mondeonam
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 13:53
Location:
My Cars:

C5 2.0 HDI starting problems

Post by mondeonam »

I have a 52 reg 2.0 HDI which has had cold starting problems for some time. Some months ago my local Indie changed the fuel filter and reported debris in the filter that was consistent with failing fuel pump/s. I have also had a new set of glow plugs fitted and the relay checked.
Now I know the bill for changing both pumps and cleaning the system at a garage is a hefty one and in all honesty is more than the car is worth to me, espescially if the injectors have been contaminated as well. At the moment I am having to use cold start spray to get it going from cold.

Once started the car runs fine even under load up hills etc. I would like to try and solve this problem doing as much as I can myself so I need your advice and expertise.

first question is could this be anything other then a fuel problem? And are there any easy and cheap ways of checking this. I would rather not rely on diagnostics reports as I have had a bad experience in the past with a Passat which cost me loads replacing parts that turned out to be not the problem.

Next where is the problem/blockage likely to be, could I just change the lift pump and flush the rest or do I really need to change both pumps?

Any help or advice would be gratefully received.
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25366
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4888

Post by myglaren »

I'd start by dragging the lift pump out and inspecting it, also the bottom of the tank for sludge.

You may get away with cleaning the tank and lift pump strainer.
You need to see the condition of the lift pump though. If it is breaking up then as your mechanic has said, fine metal particles could well have damaged the diesel pump.
wheeler
Posts: 6848
Joined: 21 Sep 2002, 19:07
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:
x 717

Post by wheeler »

1st off i'd say the glowplugs on this engine wont cause any cold starting problems unless its really cold.
Next get a proper diagnostic check done to see what the fuel pressure is when cranking from cold, if its any less than 120 bar (assuming the low pressure pump in the tank is working ok) then get an injector leak off test done, a faulty injector can stop enough fuel pressure building up in the rail & it wont start.
mondeonam
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 13:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by mondeonam »

Thanks for the feedback.

First question,, could the lift pump be deteriorating but still working thus causing the cold start problem, is it worth cleaning the tank etc without actually replacing the pump? Is it easy to tell its condition by looking at it if so what should I look for?
Next question, if I get a pressure test done and it reveals low pressure does this tell me anything specific or just that somehwere in the fuel system there is a partial blockage, could it be the pump/s rather than the injectors that are the cause.
steelcityuk
Posts: 1053
Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
Location: not applicable
My Cars: not applicable
x 1

Post by steelcityuk »

Hi,

If the car will start on Easy Start and keep running at above idle then it's doubtful it has a fuel blockage.

The lift pump could still be providing fuel at a pressure that's OK for the injection pump but due to the precision nature of the injection pump any metal particles that go through will slowly destroy it and the injectors. It usually starts as a misfire at low revs then progresses to intermittent none starting to never starting without chemical help. As the injection pump becomes more damaged it can't generate enough pressure, the ECU sees this and won't even attempt to fire the injectors. Easy Start fires up the engine and the revs can be high enough to allow the injection pump to generate enough pressure to fire the injectors but eventually this will only work if the revs are kept above idle.

This is common fault with HDi's, some blame it on misfuelling which starts the process off by the lift pump disintegrating and causing damage to the other parts. The problem is that replacing one item can risk cross contamination. Working on such a high pressure system is dangerous if you don't know the procedure.

If you look on Honestjohns back room forum there are plenty of examples of this problem. It could be a faulty fuel pressure sensor but the metal particles make me think it's not. A Bosch specialist would be able to test to pump and tell you for sure.

Sorry it's not good news I hope you find a cheap way to fix it.

Steve.
not applicable
mondeonam
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 13:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by mondeonam »

Took the advice and have booked it in at a Bosch centre early next week for diagnostics.
Will let you know the outcome.
mondeonam
Posts: 5
Joined: 24 Mar 2009, 13:53
Location:
My Cars:

Post by mondeonam »

Just back from collecting my car from the Bosch centre, the diagnosis was a leaking injector, they overhauled the injector and problem now solved :lol: (£206 for diagnostics and repair)
Just wish I had gone to them a few months ago would have saved me so much agro, problem was local citroen indi had told me that it was the fuel pumps which was going to be a hefty bill. :cry:
steelcityuk
Posts: 1053
Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
Location: not applicable
My Cars: not applicable
x 1

Post by steelcityuk »

Hi,

Nice to hear a happy ending to an HDi tale.

Thanks for posting up the result.

Steve.
not applicable
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25366
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4888

Post by myglaren »

There is a Bosch centre a couple of miles from me and I have considered taking the car to them.
Particularly after reading mondeoman's post describing the successful outcome of his problems there.
JohnD
(Donor 2022)
Posts: 2632
Joined: 14 Mar 2001, 23:41
Location: Epsom, Surrey
My Cars: 2010 Citroen C5-X7 tourer
1998 Citroen Saxo 1.5D
2018 Citroen C4-B7
1998 Peugeot 306. 1.9D
2011 Citroen C1
x 72
Contact:

Post by JohnD »

My C5 became difficult to start from cold several weeks ago. I used my code reader on it and it came up with P0113. I replaced the air intake sensor and it made no difference at all, although the fault didn't show anymore. I then took the car to a Bosch service centre who kept it overnight but by the end of the second day, they couldn't tell me what was wrong. After another week of difficult cold starts, I booked it into the local Cit dealer. They diagnosed a lazy starter motor. The motor was changed and starting is now instant.
2010 C5 X7 VTR+Nav 160
1998 1.5 Saxo
1998 Pug 306 1.9D
2018 C4 B7 VTR+
2011 Citroen C1
Post Reply