Xantia Sunroof

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bonnyman750
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Xantia Sunroof

Post by bonnyman750 »

Hi All,
I am having an issue with the sunroof on my red Xantia sunroof. When going from tilt to slide or vice versa, the roof panel does not stop half way (i.e. flat to the roof). It just carries straight on through. Has anyone else had this issue and what was the cure, if any. Also I have noticed a rattle when the panel is flat to the roof but I cannot find the reason why. I have read all the previous threads about sunroofs but nothing conclusive. AFAIK all the fixings, including the motor's are tight, the cables seem ok as it performs otherwise ok and there are no obvious loose rivets etc..
Could it be a faulty relay or motor and, if so, can the motor be removed without dropping the headliner and does it involve disconnecting the drive cables etc..
Seeing as the sunroof in my gold Xantia operates perfectly with no rattles at 216600 miles and the red one only has 135000 miles can I assume that normal wear and tear doesn't come into it??

Cheers

Glyn
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Post by CitroJim »

I'd have thought the motor gearbox would have had a contact or microswitch of some sort to detect the "flat closed" position.

I have the wiring diagrams for the sunroof but sadly, I'm 100 miles away from them and won't have access to them until Friday :(

If you can hold until then Glyn, I'll post them up.
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Post by Homer »

IIRC there is a notch in the gears which should stop the motor at the closed position.

I suspect someone has used the manual override or replaced the motor at some time and not set the gears up correctly afterward.
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Post by bonnyman750 »

Hi Homer, thanks for that.

Can you remove the motor without screwing up the cabling set up? I don't want to loosen the screws and hear that dreaded 'BOING' as everything lets go. And, if so, where does the notch have to be before replacing the motor? Is there a set up routine you have to follow?

Jim, if you get a chance, can you post up those wiring diagrams you mentioned :D ...

Cheers...

Glyn
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Post by CitroJim »

bonnyman750 wrote: Jim, if you get a chance, can you post up those wiring diagrams you mentioned :D ...
Surely will Glyn, just got to recommission the scanner. I've a feeling Addo was after an AL4 diagram as well... Anybody else needing any diagrams whilst I'm at it? Admiral 51?
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Post by addo »

You're spot on, Jim. I was after the usual "trifecta" of diagrams; in this case for the AL4 (on a petrol 16V if it matters).

Thanks, Adam.
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Post by CitroJim »

addo wrote:You're spot on, Jim.
No worries, it's on the list Adam :D

Now I really must stop posting, get the scanner sorted and get to work...
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Glyn,

Here are the diagrams..

Xantia Sunroof Circuit

Xantia Sunroof harnesses

Xantia Sunroof Component Locations

There are indeed limit switches on the motor cam. Items 6801, 6802 and 6806.

All components numbers are as per the list in the Haynes BoL.

Hope that helps Glyn. Sorry for the poor quality of the images. They're from an exceedingly dog-eared and well-used manual :lol:

Adam, the AL4 circuits I'll post in a new thread shortly...
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Post by bonnyman750 »

Hi Jim,

thanks for the pics. I printed them off large so that i could familiarise myself with the wiring while in the car. First indications are that the zero point switch has two orange wires going to it not white and orange as per the diagram! The other switch seems to have the black/grey/green wires as printed.
All I need to know now is if there is a set routine for removing the motor. Does the roof have to be in a certain position before undoing the mounting screws or is it a sunroof assembly out job. I need to know so that I can ascertain whether the cam is in the right position for the zero point switch and, more importantly, that if I remove the mounting screws, the cabling doesn't go BOING and leave sunroofless. With the motor out I can at least check the micro switche(s) for correct function and change it/them if necessary. There are currently three Xantias in my usual scrapper but none have S/R's so I can't dismantle them to find out :(

Any info would be great...

Cheers...
Glyn
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Post by ekaftan »

bonnyman750 wrote:Hi Jim,

thanks for the pics. I printed them off large so that i could familiarise myself with the wiring while in the car. First indications are that the zero point switch has two orange wires going to it not white and orange as per the diagram! The other switch seems to have the black/grey/green wires as printed.
All I need to know now is if there is a set routine for removing the motor. Does the roof have to be in a certain position before undoing the mounting screws or is it a sunroof assembly out job. I need to know so that I can ascertain whether the cam is in the right position for the zero point switch and, more importantly, that if I remove the mounting screws, the cabling doesn't go BOING and leave sunroofless. With the motor out I can at least check the micro switche(s) for correct function and change it/them if necessary. There are currently three Xantias in my usual scrapper but none have S/R's so I can't dismantle them to find out :(

Any info would be great...

Cheers...
Glyn
Close the sunroof. Pop out the cover. Remove 3 screws. Undo electrical connector. Wiggle the motor out.

Reassembly is reverse, but be very careful not to get grease on your fingers or you will smear the headliner.
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi Glyn,

Pleased they helped :D

here's the Official Words on how to remove the sunroof motor.

It's a PDF and may take a moment or two to download....
Jim

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Post by bonnyman750 »

Hi all,

after all the info gained from here, I finally plucked up the courage to remove the sunroof motor from its aperture and start investigating. At first I thought that the microswitch for the zero point was faulty and was considering the possibilities of removal and replacement. But after checking all the wiring, all gear postions and still not getting the motor/gears to stop at the zero point, I suspected that the relay was not doing its job. I pulled the red cover off it and flicked the relay contacts apart a few times, reconnected it without the cover, operated the sunroof switch and it worked faultlessly. It is all now back together and, fingers crossed, seems to be still operating properly. At least now, if it plays up again I know that I will probably have to replace the relay, though almost certainly from a scrapper!

Thanks to all for the info...

Cheers

Glyn
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Post by CitroJim »

Good work Glyn :D
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Post by bonnyman750 »

HI All,

just been to my local scrapper to get a red sunroof relay as a back up. All three Xantias in their yard didn't have a sunroof! But there was a Peugeot 405 in there and, lo and behold, the same relay...The white sticker on it says 'Webasto Heuliez WH 176 670' in case you need a reference...

just thought I would post it for general info...

Cheers

Glyn
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Post by bonnyman750 »

Hi All,

another update!

Since posting the (apparent) success of sorting the sunroof relay, I started experiencing the same problem of the roof not stopping at the zero point (flat to roof/shut position) again. So, for the ease of it, I simply swapped it for the relay obtained from the scrapper 405, (see above) and since has worked every time.

However, being an inquisitive type of person and one who cannot understand why these relays are £53.51 inc. V.A.T. from Citroen :shock:, I managed today to have a closer look at the innards of the original relay. After close inspection of the circuit board inside with a good magnifying glass, I found, but only just, the old favourite...broken solder around one of the components legs allowing the leg to move under vibration. Two minutes spent resoldering the offending leg, it was refitted back into the roof space and it now (seems to) work perfectly!

I'm keeping my fingers crossed!!!

Glyn
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