Xantia 2.0i 16v VSX ignition problem R reg

admiral51 · Unread post by **admiral51** » 15 Mar 2009, 20:56

Hi All

My VSX has a problem with the ignition feed from the fusebox .Andmcit has traced to break in the feed to be somewhere from just after leaving the fusebox to just under the scuttle by the drivers door.
The ignition feed has been bridged direct from the +ve battery post to here

Hopefully Andmcit will be able to add to this at some stage (i know you are real busy Andrew) .I havnt checked anything out yet as i dont have the full wiring diagrams but what i do know is that with the wire bridged the only thing that does not work is the Blower/HRW

Can anyone tell me if there should be another feed to the ignition other than this or if im likely to find that it is probably the contacts gone on the ignition switch

Im pretty sure i can trace the feed out of the fuse box given the right info and run a new feed in that is fused as a permanent fix

Cheers
Colin

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 15 Mar 2009, 21:15

Hi Colin

Sounds like you need some wiring diagrams

Shocking this is, I'm down in Hampshire and won't be home now until late Friday

If you can wait until then, I'll get the relevant diagrams scanned up...

Sorry

Shockingly bad timing for me to go away for a week

admiral51 · Unread post by **admiral51** » 15 Mar 2009, 21:28

CitroJim wrote:Hi Colin

Sounds like you need some wiring diagrams

Shocking this is, I'm down in Hampshire and won't be home now until late Friday

If you can wait until then, I'll get the relevant diagrams scanned up...

Sorry Shockingly bad timing for me to go away for a week

Could be worse Jim im off to Scotland Monday and i wont be home till Thursday

Its no great rush at present although i must get this sorted before i get the Screen replaced because of its location

Andmcit has the routing diagram just wanted to throw it out in the open incase im missing something obvious

But Friday will be fine for the diagrams

Have a good course

Colin

Clogzz · Unread post by **Clogzz** » 16 Mar 2009, 12:44

Hi Colin,

The ignition switch has two thick unfused red wires coming in from a place called BoL item BB10, supply box.
The second wire from left out of BB10 to the ignition switch does blower and rear demister.

Ignition switch wires and picture from blower modification topic:

Black plug NR wire 1: Unfused permanent 12 Volts from battery.
Black plug NR wire 2: 12V out when starting only.

Grey plug GR wire 1: 12V out on ignition and accessories.
Grey plug GR wire 2: 12V out on starting and ignition.

Brown plug MR wire 1: Unfused permanent 12V from battery.
Brown plug MR wire 2: 12V out on ignition only.

No cause to have been there yet, but BB10 must be a junction box prone to bad contacts.

admiral51 · Unread post by **admiral51** » 21 Mar 2009, 20:50

Thanks to all but i have to admit that me and electrics are not the best of bedfellows

I am confused as to how bridging direct from the battery to this wire results in power at the ignition switch but this is what i think is happening

The wire in question i think originates from engine fuse location A or B and then runs into the n/s wing
the front 2 wires in this pic are defintley the feed for the cooling fans the 2 in the background are the ones from location A/B and run together with the 2 red wires into the n/s wing

I assume that a break is therefore between the n/s wing and where it reappears under the scuttle in this pic

would i be correct in saying that this a feed to the ignition switch and not a wire from it to the engine fuse box

If this is the case would the fact that i have no blower/hrw working although everything else does indicate that possibly the other wire from fuse A or B is the feed to the ignition for the blower and that this may also be broken

What i am intending to do is to solder a new wire into the existing wire where the sheath has been removed and then route it back to the engine fuse box and solder a join there- hopefully enableing me to then blank the existing wire off

I just need some info as to which wire ive bridged into and where it originates from

I have already done the blower relay mod on my TD but im not sure if that is the problem here

Like i said me and electrics......

Colin

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Mar 2009, 20:57

Colin,

Can you see the number on the wire that was tapped into with the croc-clip? and what harness is that one. I'm having trouble working out where on the car it is

Is it the one under the mudshield on the RH wing?

As soon as I dig them out, the harness diagrams will make more sense of it...

admiral51 · Unread post by **admiral51** » 21 Mar 2009, 21:04

Hi Jim
Have not been able to see a number on the wire but its location is as follows

Where the croc clip has been used the location is under the windscreen scuttle in the o/s upper wing area that has the wiper motor/assembly in

The pic from the fuse area is upside down

but is from the engine compartment and is the big fuse location A and B

Hope this helps in some way

Colin

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Mar 2009, 21:09

admiral51 wrote: Hope this helps in some way

It does!

admiral51 · Unread post by **admiral51** » 21 Mar 2009, 21:37

Not brilliant cos its dark but the area circled is the location where the croc clip has been used

this one shows the wires running through into the n/s wing along with the 2 red wires cant edit it for some reason

Colin

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 21 Mar 2009, 21:56

Right Colin,

Having studied the diagrams...

Fuse A in the engine bay fusebox supplies everything except the blower and HRW. That must be the wire you have jumped with the croc clip and that would be wire BMF1 on the BLACK (NR) plug on the ignition switch. That should be live all the time. The other half of the Black Plug is the feed to the starter solenoid and live only in the start position.

The HRW and Blower is supplied by Fuse B and goes via wire BMF2 to the BROWN (MR) ignition switch plug. The other side of the brown plug is wire KK and live only when the switch is in the run positon.

BMF1 and BMF2 should be live irrespective of ignition switch position as they are effectively direct from the battery.

For completeness, the grey (GR) plug on the ignition switch is live only as follows:

Wire AA: Live in accessories and run via Fuse A
Wire CC: Live in run and start via Fuse A

So, if BMF2 is live all the time and KK is never live (or very low voltage), the problem for the blower/HRW is the old favourite

Both wires BMF 1 and BMF 2 run in the notorious 10AV loom which runs under the radiator.

It's well possible both could be fractured thereabouts. Personall, I'd snip at the hole made by the croc-clip and run a complete new wire (same gauge) back to Fuse A using crimp butts (in-line crimp joints) and a good quality crimp tool to connect it all together. If necessary, do the same for wire BMF2.

There is a fantastic number of wires in harness 10AV and it'll be worth checking the harness carefully to find out where the trouble is in case of any other damaged wires.

Also have a look at the big plug/socket IC01, the end of which is just visible in the picture by the yellow object. Separate it and check the contacts. You may well find the problem here as both BMF1 and BMF2 carry a high current.

Just a word on crimp tools. Those cheap ones in terminal kits are useless for doing good crimps (especially when using butts) on high current carrying wires. Sport out on (or borrow) a professional tool for this job. NEVER use an electricians "choc-block" for this kind of connection either...

Hope that helps Colin and that I've made some sense here. Dont hesitate to shout for more if you need it...

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 21 Mar 2009, 22:22

That bulkhead fitting will come apart by undoing a pair of very deeply
recessed allen head bolts - the yellow plastic pin is there purely as a
check to prove it's locked firmly in place whereas when I first unearthed
it I believed it was simply that holding the joint together in a similar
method to the fuse box loom jointed multi plugs beside the battery box
'consumer unit'.

The diagram/key for the IC01 bulkhead joint is this:

apologies if the file is a bit large but legibility is my key concern here.

The lower feeds numbered 1 to 8 are the key area of interest!

Andrew

admiral51 · Unread post by **admiral51** » 22 Mar 2009, 00:54

Thanks Jim and Andrew most helpful

I think the best route would be to solder the joins and put a heatshrink sleave over them although i could be wrong

I think i will do the main ignition switch feed first and then try the same bridgeing trick to see if i get power to the blower/hrw before i delve into the relay mod

As soon as i get this fixed then i can get the new windscreen organised and hopefully stop the water ingress

Any thoughts on the gauge of wire im likely to need and even if i run the feed from the fuse box should i also add another inline fuse as backup

Cheers

Colin

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 22 Mar 2009, 02:44

Schematic and circuit layouts:

still breaking up in the small details unfortunately, unless it's my tired eyes!

Andrew

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 22 Mar 2009, 09:17

Soldering and heat shrink will be fine Colin. Try to replicate what Ciitron did with their own splices: Join the two ends and wrap the joint in fine wire in a coil and then solder. This gives it some mechanical strength. Don't use too much solder as it can weaken and make the wire brittle.

Personally though, I still prefer well-made butt crimps for jobs like this but as I say, you need a very high quality tool for jobs like this and they're not cheap

Use the same (or slightly heavier) gauge of wire intended for automotive purposes. Halfraulds sell it. Stiff rated at 50 amps will be good.

Provided you keep fuses A and B in circuit, no need for additional fuses.

Andrew, some very useful diagrams there, especially the IC01 layout

admiral51 · Unread post by **admiral51** » 22 Mar 2009, 10:01

Thanks Jim,Andrew lots to get to work on 8) 8)
May not get to far today the boy wants to take SWMBO out for the day

Should have an update later tonight if my plan works

Colin