2.2 HDI (173) - Any good?

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bencowell
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2.2 HDI (173) - Any good?

Post by bencowell »

Is the 2.2 HDI (173) a good engine? I've heard about injectors rusting into the heads of the older 2.2 HDI (136) engine.

Ben
Currently driving a 2004 C5 VTR (old shape) and an Electric Kia Soul. Sorry but the electric one is my favourite!
Formerly Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6, 2 x Kia Optima, 2 x C5, Xsara and Saxo.
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Post by citroenxm »

Its NOT so much the injectors RUSTING into the heads, but they are long injectors and go through the inlet manifold...

What happens is if the Fire Proof seals give in.. and the upper sleeve fails, incoorectly conbusted fuel builds up the side of the injectors and eventually out the top - indicated by what appears to be Plastic depositis around them... if they've got to that stage its a bloody hard job removing the injector as the sides will be full !

I found that warming the engine up to a reasonable temperture HELPED remove the hardest injector! BUT ONLY JUST....

I have NO IDEA what the later version is like, but if the design has NOT changed it may very well suffer the same problem.

Me personally, Id avoid it! I had a Peugeot Technichian here not so long ago and he said I was lucky to do it, but they have scrapped many due to the problem with injectors - local main stealer.

Id STICK to the 8v 2.oi HDi 110bhp unit... its just right, and Ive not YET heard of sticking/jammed injectors on them..

Good luck
Rgds
Paul
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Post by CitroJim »

That's dreadful...
citroenxm wrote:but they have scrapped many due to the problem with injectors - local main stealer.
:shock:

Was that the whole car Paul, or just the head?
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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Post by bencowell »

I've an 8v 2.0 HDI 110 and am thinking about an eventual replacement.

The 2.0 HDI 16v 138 seems to have a little less low down torque, but is livlier than the 2.0 110 at high (3500+) revs. I doubt a 1.6 C5 would be any fun.
Currently driving a 2004 C5 VTR (old shape) and an Electric Kia Soul. Sorry but the electric one is my favourite!
Formerly Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6, 2 x Kia Optima, 2 x C5, Xsara and Saxo.
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Post by citroenxm »

bencowell

1.6 16v is a 110bhp lump so probably the same performance....

Citrojim,

Im certain he said just WHOLE engines.... :shock:

Rgds
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
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Post by bencowell »

citroenxm wrote:
1.6 16v is a 110bhp lump so probably the same performance....

Paul
Having driven a couple of 1.6 HDI 110's they are made with ponies not horses. It's got less torque and the engine has to be revved harder to get any kind of performance.

Funny thing is in the 6 speed EGS in the C4 Picasso, the in-gear performance is acceptable because the gearbox has quite low ratios.

The EGS takes ages before changing down and can lead to delays when you need the power most!

Having driven both the 2.0 and 2.2 C5, the 2.2 has the edge for driveability. I just wondered what it's reliability is like.

Looking on the Citroen Service website, there are lots of differences between the new and the old 2.2 HDI.

Both have long injectors but they are different shapes.
Currently driving a 2004 C5 VTR (old shape) and an Electric Kia Soul. Sorry but the electric one is my favourite!
Formerly Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6, 2 x Kia Optima, 2 x C5, Xsara and Saxo.
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Post by bencowell »

Image

New 2.2 173
Currently driving a 2004 C5 VTR (old shape) and an Electric Kia Soul. Sorry but the electric one is my favourite!
Formerly Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6, 2 x Kia Optima, 2 x C5, Xsara and Saxo.
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2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
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Post by citroenxm »

The reliability seems to be fine on the 136bhp that my customer has...

Its an 03 Plate SX, but has 175,000 miles on the clock :o


Rgds
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

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Post by bencowell »

I've only got 105k on my 2.0 HDI 110.

I fancy changing for one of the last of the previous shape C5's. The new "BMW style interior" that the dealer raved about doesn't work for me.
Currently driving a 2004 C5 VTR (old shape) and an Electric Kia Soul. Sorry but the electric one is my favourite!
Formerly Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6, 2 x Kia Optima, 2 x C5, Xsara and Saxo.
citroenxm
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2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

Well, with that TINY millage, I rather be: "Better the Devil you Know"..

KEEP the 2.oi 110bhp... its a Fantastic lump... the best of torque and bhp combination...

Rgds
Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
1994 XM 2.1 d auto
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Post by KevMayer »

I've read about the injector problem.

It's injector 'blow by' which is the issue and its a problem which can occur to any common rail diesel engine. I've seen pictures of it on a Mercedes diesel saloon.

The injectors aren't screwed into the cylinder head. There is a sealing copper washer around the entrance to the cylinder. The long injector sits in the hole and is held in place by a bolted forked bracket which clamps around the top of the injector.

If the copper washer fails, or, if the bolted bracket isn't tight enough you get black sooty emissions from around the tip of the injector and this eventually builds up carbon around the injector stem.

There are some caustic chemicals which can be applied to break down the carbon so you can get the injector out.

The 2.2 Hdi in my C5 is also prone to this problem.

If you search the net there's quite a lot of info about it on all sorts of Common rail cars.

The 2.2 Hdi 173 sounds really good. I'd risk it. In fact I'm thinking of getting one as my next Citroen.
Last edited by KevMayer on 06 Jan 2009, 22:23, edited 1 time in total.
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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2008 Peugeot 207 Sw 1.6 16v hdi. 217k and rising
2010 Peugeot 207 SW 1.6 8v HDi 161k and rising
x 70

Post by citroenxm »

In a different form of words....

Was gonna say it, but thought Id leave it :lol:


Paul
Sharing a pug 207 1.6 hdi Sw 16v.
M reg Xm 2.1 td auto exclusive S2 269k and rising
L reg XM V6 12v SEi auto .. Light project

A very sad...
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Post by myglaren »

I have had my 52 plate 2L HDi 110 estate for almost two years now and haven't really had anything to complain about. I'm not overjoyed at the power or economy but a lot of that is down to my personal driving style - or abuse as it has been called. Also comparison with my 2.0 iLS Accord that when I found out how to drive it went like a scalded cat.

It has twice had to have new washers on the injectors and had the aircon module replaced recently, otherwise it is all just standard service items and wear an tear.

Jim will affirm that it isn't very lively but after his Activa, what is?

It has just been to Scotland with three adults each with a mountain bike and a heap of tools and other junk and returned 50.23 mpg (Full tank to full tank, not the notoriously inaccurate trip meter - mine doesn't work anyway)
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Post by Old-Guy »

It's injector 'blow by' which is the issue and its a problem which can occur to any common rail diesel engine.
It can occur on ANY diesel engine. Some engine designs have proved to be more prone to the problem and/or the consequences are more dire. Certain Mercedes engines (e.g. older Vitos) were dire - blow-by is/was a common problem and the engine design resulted in carbon building up in the cam case from lub oil 'coked' by hot exhaust gas.

I once 'recovered' an otherwise nice tidy Vito from a Mercedes dealer to a scrap yard. It had finally stopped when the carbon had completely filled the cam case (I had a good look when securing the loose head etc. in the back) to the point when the valves couldn't close completely.

I can quite believe that in such an extreme case, anything caustic will destroy the head long before there's any useful loosening of the coke.

You'll see what I mean if you try cleaning a greasy aluminium frying pan with caustic soda solution. The result will be disastrous to the pan - and possibly you too if if SWMBO catches you!
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Post by KevMayer »

This link shows the type of product available for cleaning the carbon deposits away:-

http://www.uniteddiesel.co.uk/diesel_en ... oducts/15/

Look at the third product on the page.

They're probably not caustic as I said earlier.

Looks like the system would be useful for cleaning the turbo of the 2.2 Hdi engine which is known to develop a build up which prevents the variable geometry operating and results in a turbo overboost. This gives the 'Antipollution system faulty' alarm.
Cheers, Kev

02 plate C5 2.2 Hdi Exclusive SE (now 170k miles 03/21).

Used to have:- Xantia 1.9 TurboD SX. 1996 Blue & 1998 Silver Activa. + 1992 BX TZD Turbo.
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