Xantia 2.1 TurboD Injection Pumps

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 06 Jan 2009, 18:02

Just to clear something up,
I might be going to have a look at a local 2.1 Xantia VSX over the weekend, providings its still available.
I know that some 2.1 XMs had Bosch pumps and others EPIC, was this also the case with the 2.1 Xantias?
Although its tempting due to the current 'cheapness' of diesel, no doubt that this won't last and I'd like to keep use of veggie oil as an option!

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 06 Jan 2009, 18:48

Hi Kev,

All 2.1TD Xantias have the EPIC (Electronic Pump Injection Control) pump made by our old friend the Prince of Darkness (Joe Lucas). Late ones will be badged as Delphi and that company took over Lucas.

They are a development of the older mechanical Lucas DPC pump but in the EPIC all functions are electronically controlled by means of electrovalves and they bristle with sensors inside the pump.

Fundamentally, they are excellent pumps and give good power, little smoke, easy starting and good economy. They also last well if given an exclusive diet of nice, clean, fresh DIESEL. The share a similar rotor/sleeve arrangement with the DPC and similarly, it is far from veg. tolerant and running an EPIC on veg is as much a no-no as it is in an HDi. They don't even like twin-tanking or biodiesel due to incompatible seals.

The known EPIC problems (apart from killing it on veg) concern the electrovalves. They have rubber tips which wear and upset the function of the valves by allowing fuel to leak past them. It is potentially DIY'able by one with pump experience. The other thing they don't like air as this upsets the internal hydraulics and can, in exteeme cases, lead to runaways; leakoff pipes are unusually critical.

EPIC pumps are rare. they were only fitted to PSA cars of the late 90s and Ford Transits as far as I know

The 2.1TD is a cracker of an engine and my favourite. I'll say no more as I've sung their praises enough.

I've also nattered at length about the potential of a Bosch conversion.

Don't let the EPIC dissuade you from a 2.1TD. One drive and you'll be hooked

Just accept the need to run on proper DERV and you'll love it.

A 2.1TD VSX is just about the pick of the Xantia crop.

Tell us more when you've seen the car and fallen in love with it...

You can join Peter N and I in the 2.1TD fan club

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 06 Jan 2009, 19:12

Oh c'mon now Jim, you know i'm the third fan of the XUD11!

On top of the VSX is the Exclusive which I had, it is the phase 2 (facelift) version of the VSX although I think they did run side by side for a bit.

I think the VSX has slightly better leccy leathers having inflatable side bolsters, but the later exclusive ones had side airbags as well as the two front one, mine didn't have side bags, but did have the updated inside minus trafficmaster.

But the VSX/Exclusive ones are well plush! I felt it was cosier than the XM being smaller and little bit darker (the xm has millions of windows all round).

I can vouch for the 2.1td, it's lovely, and I didn't have any issues at all with the EPIC pump. Echoing Jim, no veggie in the epic. It's like putting make-up on lucy pinder, where as the bosch pump is more of a mutya buena, still great fun.

I like ur terms Jim... Twin-tanking, made me chuckle a bit there.

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 06 Jan 2009, 19:15

Thanks Jim!
I've heard you rave about the EPIC before

Im a touch worried about the injection pump at 153k....im not that good with cars yet

I might go and look at it as its so local anyway, get a feel for Hydractive/XUD11BTE, I think I could get a lower milage one/1.9TD if I wait a bit

im not in any rush. Typically, a week before I started nosing around for one, a late S1 1.9 TD VSX with all the trimmings sold on eBay not 20 miles away from me

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 06 Jan 2009, 19:26

deian wrote:Oh c'mon now Jim, you know i'm the third fan of the XUD11!

Ohh, Dei, I'm so sorry

deian wrote: I think the VSX has slightly better leccy leathers having inflatable side bolsters, but the later exclusive ones had side airbags

My Activa has the inflatable bolsters and they're good. My 2.1TD has the MK2 leathers (with redundant side airbags). I agree, Dei, the MK1 leathers have the edge over the MK2 ones.

And of course Kev, don't forget the VSX has Hydractive suspension; a vast improvement over normal hydropneumatic

The magic carpet becomes even more magical with hydractive...

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 06 Jan 2009, 20:40

Doesn't the VSX have Hydractive 2 if I remember correctly, same set up as in the Exclusive.

I haven't sampled the ph1 VSX Leathers, but it is well known they are a little bit nicer.

The mileage is not an issue red_dwafers, i sold mine at 216k miles, and it ran lovely.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 06 Jan 2009, 21:09

deian wrote:Doesn't the VSX have Hydractive 2 if I remember correctly, same set up as in the Exclusive.

Yes, all Hydractive Xantias were Hydractive 2. Inherited from the later XMs. The Hydractive 1 as fitted to the early XMs was a far simpler system and all the normal/sport switch effectively did was to put the suspension into full-time hard mode whereas in Hydractive 2, the sport position just changes the thresholds at when it switches from soft to hard.

DickieG · Unread post by **DickieG** » 06 Jan 2009, 21:14

citrojim wrote:I think the VSX has slightly better leccy leathers having inflatable side bolsters, but the later exclusive ones had side airbags

My Activa has the inflatable bolsters and they're good. My 2.1TD has the MK2 leathers (with redundant side airbags). I agree, Dei, the MK1 leathers have the edge over the MK2 ones.

Jim the seats in your Activa are different from the ones fitted to a VSX. VSX seats have a noticably shorter base which I find lacks under thigh support. The obvious visual difference is that the on base of a VSX leather seat there is a seam running from front to rear rather than side to side. One minor detail of S1 leather seats is that the rear facing of the seat is in leather rather then the vinyl as fitted to S2 ones.

deian · Unread post by **deian** » 06 Jan 2009, 21:36

oh, i thot the vsx had the hydractive 1, and phase 2 exclusive had hydractive 2... hard to keep up with the versions of hydropneumatic applications, their names and their applications, learn somet new everyday, thanks jim

Unread post by **Peter.N.** » 06 Jan 2009, 22:09

The 2.1 with the lucas pump is good.... with a Bosch pump its perfect....