Activa alloy wheel removal problems

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 01 Jan 2009, 16:57

Things don't look very good already in 2009 and it's only Jan 1st!!
I have to blame 2008 for leaving me this as a parting shot!

As well as a replacement front Activa ram due to LHM leakage presumably
off the spindly return pipe rubber banjo the car needs a new set of pads as
Mr MOTman noticed they were a thinning down and now I find I can't get
the damned wheels off the front.

I know why the front brakes weren't done sooner! I recall now when I
bought the car the seller had needed to get the rear pair of locking bolts
drilled out to fit new rear pads and didn't have all the 8 bolts holding the
wheels on - just x3 each wheel

The alloys have an odd silver headed cap on a locking wheel bolt that spins
and I don't have the removal tool. They don't have a stepped pattern like
the McGard locking bolts or the Citroen issue 4 small pin type of socket so
I'm a bit stumped. Has anyone seen or own these type of locking bolts so
at least I know what I have to get removed?

My only other alternative is to go to a local tyre/alloys place and ask them
to 'professionally' remove the two bolts!! Doesn't sound cheap but I
wouldn't mind being proved wrong here!

Has anyone been in this situation with a reasonable outcome in the past?
I don't fancy ruining the two front Activa alloys - they look OK with just
a tiny bit or corrosion where balancing weights have been fitted in the past.

Andrew

Unread post by **myglaren** » 01 Jan 2009, 17:15

There are a few posts covering your current problem.
The trick seems to be to be to weld a nut onto the security bolt and unwind it with that.

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 01 Jan 2009, 17:25

I've got a set of those reversed thread wheel bolt removal sockets but
they're too chunky with big thick walls to fit into the recess on the Activa
alloy. The other problem is the head of the locking bolt is spinning and I'm
not sure what to drill off etc before welding anything on.

Andrew

AndersDK · Unread post by **AndersDK** » 01 Jan 2009, 17:37

Andrew if the head of the bolt is spinning around - then the only possibility I can see is ttat the threads have given up the ghost.

In that case your only option is to clamp the bolt head - using any filling between the bolt and walls in the recess - and then drill out the bastard.
You will need one of those high performance cobalt drill bits that can take the job as a hot knife in butter.

You wont need drilling deeper than approx 1" as this should truly penetrate the bolthead. From then on its just a question of drilling up until the boltshank snaps - which is when you finish off with a 12mm drill bit.

Sounds easy I know

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 01 Jan 2009, 18:12

I believe the spinning head is a deliberate anti theft feature of the locking
bolt to stop anyone attempting the very thing I'm going to have to try doing
by drilling the x2 bolts out.

I must admit, I like the idea of the lazy but potentially expensive route
of paying to have someone who must see this occurence regularly remove
them! I've seen someone fabricate using a metal rod cut to size and set into
the correct pattern on the Citroen style locking bolts which is something I
wouldn't even mind doing but the spinning anti tamper head has me stumped.

Andrew

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 01 Jan 2009, 18:28

Here's hoping it doesn't come to the scenario I saw a few years ago where
a guy on ebay had to remove the alloys off a VSX Xantia to change the pads
for an MOT and took to the alloy front with a 9" angle grinder and started to
chop the wheel off but didn't finish as the grinder gave up leaving the car
undriveable/lethal to use...

Andrew

vince · Unread post by **vince** » 01 Jan 2009, 19:46

Dont panic buddy, as Anders says drilling it out is a simple solution.
I have been through almost every alloy wheel related problem in my time messing with cars and wheel bolts dont bother me anymore.

Using a small drill bit drill a pilot hole in the centre of the bolt head. Then progressively using bigger bits make the hole larger. Once you get a decent sized hole then gently tap a flat head screwdriver into the hole and unscrew it like a big screw

The fastest ive done one like that was 16 minutes i think.....and trust me im no motor engineer

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 01 Jan 2009, 19:53

you need a very small cold chisle the cut the revolving suround off of the bolt head, i used this aproach on a VO**O with a simular prob, then if you have a grinder you might be able to thin the outter wall of your removal socket, to allow it to fit into the wheel

regards malcolm

Unread post by **xantia_v6** » 01 Jan 2009, 20:50

Just checking the obvious... are the spinning caps just the decorative covers (as on my mk2 V6?), in which case, they can be eased out with a thin screwdiver.

vince · Unread post by **vince** » 02 Jan 2009, 00:05

Jam something down the side of the bolt head to stop it spinning until the drill bites

handyman · Unread post by **handyman** » 02 Jan 2009, 14:45

Hello Andrew, if you do a search in the archive I posted a reply a few months ago about the OE security bolts and their removal. The common wheel bolt removers do not fit into the recesses in the Activa wheels, and turning them down to fit weakens the socket walls.

In the end, my solution was to drill into the centre of the bolt, which will be the softest part and by using a ***kin' big easy-out, out came the bolts with no damage to the hubs or wheels. As Anders stated, best to use a cobalt drill, as the wheel bolts are HT. You can use HSS drills but they will need a keen edge.

The chrome spinning thing is just a cosmetic cover, two cracks with a cold chisel will split it.

Handyman

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 02 Jan 2009, 17:17

Thanks for all the suggestions and input guys!

I did have a prod about in proper light this morning and couldn't get past
the spinning cap even by prying and trying to chisel the cap off. Before I
made a total meal of things I bailed out and went to planB where my
wallet was the tool of action!

The local Citroen Indy was fortunately in a lull where nobody had got
organised to drop a car into him for new work until next week and the
phone had quietened down after running permanently til well past lunch.

It took two lads just under 2 hours of judicious hammering, air ratchet,
pry bar, slide hammer and chisel to persuade the two errant bolts to undo
as the threads were corroded in and the locking bolts albeit the cheapest,
aree worse than the pukka Citroen one's to remove. Due to being shorter
than the standard bolts this had allowed the thread in the hubs to get badly
corroded requiring a die to cut through the crap to allow a replacement
bolt to fit.

To be fair I was charged an hour labour and it was perishing cold! I'm
chickening out from going out now to change the front brake pads and
examination of the leaky front activa ram until tomorrow although the
prognosis on the ram leak off return doesn't look too good.

Andrew

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 02 Jan 2009, 17:32

What a battle Andrew

At least the wheels are now off undamaged. Good job really, very bad form to use bolts that are too short.

Did you get to see exactly what the locking mechanism was? I've been here puzzling like mad over just how that spinning cap arrangement works and I'm still baffled. Can you enlighten me/put me out of my miserry please

andmcit wrote:although the
prognosis on the ram leak off return doesn't look too good.

So the ram itself is leaking? The place where the leakage return breaks is right on the face of the ram so you might still be lucky. Bit of a caper to effect a repair though

andmcit · Unread post by **andmcit** » 02 Jan 2009, 17:49

To be fair, the lads were very hard working and knowlegeable and had
speculated at worst a fraction of the final time before battle commenced
having had practice before!

Glad I wasn't doing it as I don't have the kit like the air ratchet etc and
they were dilligent in their care to look after the wheel and ARE keen
Citroen fans - the owner actually said later he sometimes get's the 'fall out'
aftermath to try and rescue from other garages that don't really give a
flying fig about being careful/thorough when working on that 'crappy old
Citroen'...

I'm at a loss as to understand how the cap was supposed to be removed
if I even had the proper removal key/tool Jim as it appeared to be a collar
in a slot spinning around with a domed head concealing the 'drive' cut out
etc underneath.

It would be extremely silly having a disposable cap that needs to be pried
off and damaged every time the bolt needs undoing and yet there was no
way to get a lever onto the cap - probably this is due to it being totally
unsuited to the Activa wheel design/aperture.

The remains were so comprehensively mangled once off it wasn't a simple
case of saying, "I get it, so that's how it works!"

I'm just REALLY glad to see the back of the damned bolts. Apparently,
the back pair were drilled off the car for the previous owner who had even
attempted to get help from the guy that sold the car to him - the key got
lost in a house move!!

That's what the glovebox is for isn't it?

I've posted a query on the Activa ram in an Activa thread started by Kev!

Andrew

citronut · Unread post by **citronut** » 02 Jan 2009, 23:11

Jim the locking bolts i had to remove from a VO**O had a stainless steel colar around the head, and the corect removal tool had three very short pegs which located into three holes in the face of the bolt head, when this type of locking bolt become tight you break the pegs off of the tool whilst trying to undo the bolt, i did resot to welding a nut to the bolt to remove it

regards malcolm