HDi or old skool diesel?

robster_1981 · Post by **robster_1981** » 31 Dec 2008, 10:07

I'm on the hunt for a Xantia estate at the moment. I'm focusing only on HDi 110's at the moment as I just want a bit of extra power for when the car is fully loaded with fat drunken ****'s lol, but I can't help noticing all the 2.1 and 1.9td's that are much more plentiful. The only thing that puts me off is the alegedly higher fuel consumption and that they aren't quite as refined.

Can anyone shed any light/opinions on this please?

reblack68 · Post by **reblack68** » 31 Dec 2008, 10:34

I think you'd soon get fed up of a 1.9TD for taxi work and the economy isn't great.

I've never driven a 2.1 but I understand they offer a similar driving experience to the HDi110 and the economy is nearly as good. 2.1s aren't that common though.

If you get a Y plate HDi the road tax is slightly cheaper.

Is there not an age limit on taxis where you are? Around here it's 8 years, which would pretty much exclude the 1.9/2.1.

KP · Post by KP » 31 Dec 2008, 10:50

The 1.9 wouldn't struggle too much once the fuelling and boost are setup/played with.
Also running it on wvo/wvo will cut your fuel bills down massively, especially if you buy your own filters and have a few square feet to filter the stuff.
1.9tds aren't too bad and i have a HDi 90 estate and want to o back to the old skool. even though the HDi is very economical it cant compare to the price of the veg i hav already and the free stuff i could get...

robster_1981 · Post by **robster_1981** » 31 Dec 2008, 11:18

There is no age limit in this area, but i'd rather get a newer vehicle so i've kind of answered my own question

One thing that is tempting me towards a 1.9 is the veg oil, but I'm not 100% sure of what you need to do with it to make it useable, or, where best to get it from

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 31 Dec 2008, 11:52

robster_1981 wrote:There is no age limit in this area, but i'd rather get a newer vehicle so i've kind of answered my own question

One thing that is tempting me towards a 1.9 is the veg oil, but I'm not 100% sure of what you need to do with it to make it useable, or, where best to get it from

Can you get veg oil much cheaper than what diesel is now? Its really not worth considering a 1.9 TD on this basis alone, as the HDi is more economical on diesel and would work out cheaper than a 1.9TD running on veg oil (86p litre is cheapest really)

Gareth

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 31 Dec 2008, 17:16

robster_1981 wrote:There is no age limit in this area, but i'd rather get a newer vehicle so i've kind of answered my own question

One thing that is tempting me towards a 1.9 is the veg oil, but I'm not 100% sure of what you need to do with it to make it useable, or, where best to get it from

If you have access to a cash and carry like Macro of Costco near you, then you should be able to pick up 20L of KTC veg for under £16 (works out around 77ppl at the moment).
All you do is pour it into the tank as it's straight vegetable oil (SVO) so no need to refine or even filter it.
If you mainly work round town, I really don't think a Hdi will save you that much in fuel compared with the IDIs, if you were mainly doing long airport runs then maybe, but as above, if you can get bulk cheap veg then the Hdi won't save you 20ppl

Post by **Peter.N.** » 31 Dec 2008, 22:55

The 2.1 is a brilliant engine and will likely give a better fuel consumption than the 1.9 apart from being nicer to drive, and certainly potentially more reliable than the Hdi.

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 01 Jan 2009, 17:03

I would choose an old mechanical Diesel every time over an electronically controlled version.

Modern HDi engines are reported to return slightly better MPG but any savings will be wiped out instantly the first time the engine management light comes on & you have to visit the dealer to have it sorted

Modern Diesel engines have become a total nightmare because of emission controls....Devices such as EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) & Particle filters may work in theory but the reality is that now Diesel engines have become a very problematic engine.

You knew where you were with the mechanical type...if it didn't start or had a running problem you could more than likely find the problem & sort it out. With electronic versions they will stop for no apparent reason & in a lot of cases your hands are tied unless you have expensive diagnostic equipment.

Cheers.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 01 Jan 2009, 17:46

If you mainly work round town, I really don't think a Hdi will save you that much in fuel compared with the IDIs, if you were mainly doing long airport runs then maybe, but as above, if you can get bulk cheap veg then the Hdi won't save you 20ppl

We run a couple of Xantia Estates - 1997 1.9TD, and a 1999 HDi. The 1.9 has done around 100K, and the HDI 230K.

The HDi will return >4-5mpg better consumption than the ID 1.9, under ALL various running conditions, as well as being very much nicer (read easier) to drive, due to the much improved low-down grunt. For me personally, the 2.1 TD is ruled out simply because of the horrid Lucas inj pump; I have had 2 of these go AWOL on XMs, resulting in taking both to the scrappers.

On balance I'd live with a bog standard (90hp) HDi and keep my fingers crossed.

den169 · Post by **den169** » 01 Jan 2009, 18:04

Only one reason to buy a 1.9 over an hdi thats running it on veg oil,The hdi is far better for power etc.

deian · Post by **deian** » 01 Jan 2009, 18:17

A later Xantia 2.1Tdi Exclusive did the job well for me. It is more economical than a 1.9td in a Xantia, even around town, it was more economical than my zx 1.9td... a 1.9td in a xantia will be more uneconomical as it is a heavier car to lug around, but the 2.1 is a tiny bit more uneconomical, but in a heavier body (xant vs. zx), it is more efficient cos it doesn't work so hard, therefore more economical all round.

As for the 2.0HDi, it is more economical yes, but as unclebuck mentioed: once u get an electrical problem it may wipe off the savings (pounds) of running a 2.0 hdi 110 vs. 2.1tdi. I've never driven the Hdi, but I couldn't fault the 2.1tdi.

Isn't a Hdi the same as the early tdci's as found in the same time mondeo's?

Plus if you can fit an old mechanical bosch pump to the XUD11 unit then you can run it on veggie oil. Most of the 2.1tdi's came with the Lucas pump, bar some of the early ones in an XM. Which I would buy.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 01 Jan 2009, 19:14

Correction to my previous post .... a 2.1 fitted with a Bosch pump is .... as are all mine:

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Jan 2009, 19:20

Peter.N. wrote:Correction to my previous post .... a 2.1 fitted with a Bosch pump is .... as are all mine:D

Peter, can you take some detailed pictures of the Bosch equipped 2.1 please for me please? never seen one in the flesh as it were...

I have a project on the back burner to retrofit a mechanical Bosch to a 2.1TD. I don't to use my own as a ginuea pig for obvious reasons; the pictures of youer setup would be very valuable in the execution of my planned conversion scheme...

I desparately need a 2.1TD with a genuinely dead EPIC to conduct my experiments on...

Post by **Peter.N.** » 01 Jan 2009, 19:34

Will do Jim - but its dark at the moment - and cold

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 01 Jan 2009, 20:08

citrojim wrote: I desparately need a 2.1TD with a genuinely dead EPIC to conduct my experiments on...

Well, I could bring my lump hammer with me the next time I come over and arrange that for you Jim