Who has the most powerfull diesel citroen...

[mrlogik]

Ok heres your chance to show off your heavy oil burner engines,i guess the win could goto anyone with the PSA groups 2.2hdi with 170hp but im talking older engines if possible with modifications or newer engines into older cars.
Purpose of the thread is to see who's done what and wether it works or not,pictures and sensible advice wouldnt go amiss.

[deian]

Don't think many people bothered tinkering with their diesel engines tbh.

The xantia 2.1 had 110bhp as did the the xm, which also had the pretty cool 2.5td 130bhp.

The first C5 had the 2.0hdi 89bhp, and 108bhp, and then a 134bhp, and also a 2.2 131bhp, and then the 2.2 got uprated to 168bhp.

The win really goes to the current C5/C6's 2.7hdi V6 diesel which has 204bhp, nowadays psa make a 1.6hdi that has 110bhp, the same as the intercooled XUD, and HDi.

The zx had a 1.9d, and a 1.9td XUD9, which featured in the xantia (90bhp-ish), along side the 2.1td XUD (110ish). The the xsara/xantia got the hdi engines, two flavours, the 90bhp one (non-intercooled i think), and the 110bhp one (intercooled)... then the C5 came etc.

But the real old skool beast probably goes to the 2.5 the XM's had.

It should be said that diesel isn't all about bhp, it's the delivery of that power through the low down torque. Citroen really don't do performance engines as such.

As for mods, and intercooler can be put on the 90bhp XUD9 to get it to 110bhp? And you can tweak the fuelling of the older bosch fuel pumps and you can tweak the turbo's on the older cars too. And on the newer cars, you can get them remapped. There's stories of good reseults where power/torque is increased as well as fuel economy with a chip/remap. Of course this is based on the assumption that the engine will get the best quality fuel and is serviced on the dot. Engines are generally detuned from the factory assuming we put the lowest quality fuel and skip on the maintenance.

When I had my zx 1.9td with the older bosch pump, i did tweak a few knobs on it and the difference is a lot, you can choke people in black smoke as you drag the car's rear end behind you. All good fun till something goes pop or the feds stop you and question you bout it.

As for the Xantia 2.1 I had, it was nicely powered for smooth brisk progress, and had the grunt to overtake safely. Nothing needed to be done to it really.

There's my opinion anyway.

[citroenxm]

Nah... the ultimate has to be the 2.5 OHV unit Turbo D 2 in the CX...

OK it was NOT problem free... but then NONE of the PSA DERV engines have been problem free...

The BEST Do NOT have to be problem free what so ever

For its time 130bhp! And was the quickest DERV powered car of its time! Wasn't beaten back then now even by the VAG group...

Dei, your about 2 to 4bhp out on all your figures... HDi 2.0's was 90 and 110 bhp's

XUD turbos's were ALL 92bhp.... what ever car they were in...

N/a XUD's had varying BHP's depending on year, type of inlet/ fuel system..from 60 bhp to 72 bhp..



Rgds
Paul

[CitroJim]

Ahh, my favourite subject

I've now experienced all the PSA diesels except the legendary 2.5s.

I love 'em all, right from the original XUD7 and XUD9 NA diesels which arguably put PSA on the map. Those old NA diesels are still so smooth and deliver the goods very well, especially in a light car. The early XUD7TD as found in the 205STDT was a real cracker and could see off a 205GTi A good XUD9 NA was so economical it was silly. My old 405GRD used to regularly return 55mpg and it's performance was not at all bad, all things considered. the XUD7 in a poverty spec. 205 still flies like a good 'un

The XUD9TD is the stuff of legend of course and is relatively tough. It's ability to run on anything vaguely oily (with a Bosch pump) without suffering is a bonus and it has a lovely smooth revvy, almost petrol-like character. For me it is severely let down in by a lack of low-down grunt though.

The real pinnacle of development was my favourite, the 2.1TD (XUD11BT). Twelve valves, masses of low-down grunt, smooth, economical and quiet. What more could you want? The fitting of the Lucas EPIC electronic pump means it cannot run on veg and if the EPIC fails, they're horribly expensive to put right but run on good diesel, they last well. The 2.1TD is also easy to work on and in a lot of ways, easier than the 1.9TD despite looking more complex. Access is generally better. If the EPIC does fail, a conversion to a mechanical Bosch or Lucas pump is quite feasible.

The 110 HDi is a cracker. I've driven a 2.1TD and 110 HDi back-to-back and apart from the slightly better low-down torque of the 2.1 and the willingness of the HDi to rev higher, there's not a lot in it. The HDi does have the fuel economy advantage though and is a tad more refined at speed.

The XUD family are old-school nowadays but still cut the mustard. They must have seemed like magic when they were first introduced to the general public in 1982, in a Talbot Horizon of all things Nice engine, shame about the car!!! At about the same time they were fitted to the Pug 305 but I know nothing of them.

I guess the XUD really hit the headlines and found their true fame when they were fitted to the BX, the 405 and 205/309.

A little known fact about the XUD is that it's a British design Designed by Ricardo using the famous Ricardo Comet swirl chamber. A legacy of the British design can be found in the valve clerarance shims; although supplied in metric sizes, they are actually sized in inches.

[citronut]

a few yaers ago i had to have the head off on my 1.9non turbo J reg BX estate, whilst it was off my X workshop landlord gas flowed it, what a diferance it made, before it used to drive very well but after it had non of the usual PSA not likeing 4th gear at 30mph round town,

after it was ported (gas flowed ) she had far more get up and go and would drive happily at 30mph in 4th round town,

which made her even more economical

regards malcolm

[deian]

Hi citroenxm, hope you had a good xmas, see u moved factory now.

As for my figures, they were ball park figures taken from wikipedia, there were differences on the cat and non cat versions as you would expect. my zx had the pure mechanical bosch pump with no cat on it and was the better version of the zx to be had in mechanical form.

No one can say a car has 92bhp or 90bhp or 88bhp on whatever version, there is always a slight variation even if it's the same setup. Now if you blue-print an engine you would get a more exact figure.

[bencowell]

The winner out of the factory has to be the C5 and C6 with the V6 HDI engine.

I can't find anyone offering to tune that engine, but there are people out there who tune the same engine in the Jag.

[citroenxm]

Ahh, my favourite subject

I've now experienced all the PSA diesels except the legendary 2.5s.

I love 'em all, right from the original XUD7 and XUD9 NA diesels which arguably put PSA on the map. Those old NA diesels are still so smooth and deliver the goods very well, especially in a light car. The early XUD7TD as found in the 205STDT was a real cracker and could see off a 205GTi A good XUD9 NA was so economical it was silly. My old 405GRD used to regularly return 55mpg and it's performance was not at all bad, all things considered. the XUD7 in a poverty spec. 205 still flies like a good 'un

I cant agree with you more on the XUD7te lump in the BX... I remember when I had my black H plater, with Bosch, it kept up with a Cavalier SRi 115, and I also would keep up with a 206 GTi 1. that was about, and that had the unit in the larger BX body, with an intercooler, the 205 didn't have an intercooler, god knows what it would have been like with the 92 bhp from the BX with intercooler fitted.... STUNNING no doubt!!!

Rgds
Paul

[steelcityuk]

When I'd finally got it sorted out my 2.5 XM was quite pokey, rebuilt top end with a light port and polish of the head and manifolds, recalibrated injectors and a turbo service. It would make a interesting remapping project.

The C5 I have now has been remapped, claimed to give around 140 BHP but without a rolling road session you can't be sure. The hardware for flashing the ECU is cheap and the remap was only a 100 euros.

Still miss my white 2.1 XM though...

Steve.

[Peter.N.]

I agree with Jim about the best, but not most powerful diesel being the 2.1. As well as being highly driveable, it must have the best fuel efficiency per HP of any mass production diesel.

I think that the best, and certainly the most powerful diesel for its time was, as Paul says, the 2.5 DTR Turbo 2 engine in the CX. 120 bhp in the late '80's was really something, they were quite reliable if you avoided the ones with a pourous block - sadly, I didn't. I had to replace the head gasket about every 15k miles and when you consider that I did over 150 k in it, that was a lot of work, just goes to show what a brilliant car I thought it was.

[mrlogik]

Done by a company but sweet all the same

[deian]

Ahh... so that is why you asked the question! After all the civilized suggestions and discussions we've had here you come up with the intended answer. Which I like!

That looks mean as fcuk!! The wheels suit it well. 240bhp!!

That is my car by the way.




















Only jokin!!

[lolingram]

I guess the XUD really hit the headlines and found their true fame when they were fitted to the BX, the 405 and 205/309.

A little known fact about the XUD is that it's a British design. Designed by Ricardo using the famous Ricardo Comet swirl chamber. A legacy of the British design can be found in the valve clerarance shims; although supplied in metric sizes, they are actually sized in inches.
_________

These shims look very similar to the FWA/B/C/E series Coventry Climaxes which I raced in the early 60s... is anything new? 8)

[lolingram]

A little known fact about the XUD is that it's a British design Very Happy Designed by Ricardo using the famous Ricardo Comet swirl chamber. A legacy of the British design can be found in the valve clerarance shims; although supplied in metric sizes, they are actually sized in inches.

Recommended reading: 'The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine' by Harry Riccardo....