Ph1 Xantia has a noisey PAS pump

Sphinx · Unread post by **Sphinx** » 27 Dec 2008, 14:53

....By the sound of things lol

Hi all, I've got an R reg Xantia 2.1 TD and the other day I noticed the PAS pump (I think!) is making a bit of a grinding noise

The noise normally goes away when the car is warm, but not always. Does anyone have any suggestions on what might be the problem?

Regards

Tom

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2008, 18:30

Hi Tom,

More that likely it's your auxillary belt tensioner that has failed. They can make a nasty set of noises when cold.

Sphinx · Unread post by **Sphinx** » 27 Dec 2008, 19:17

Thanks for the reply Jim, I've had a quick look in the Haynes book of lies and missing sections and it seems I'll need a 'special' tool. Is replacing the belt tensioner a hard job?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2008, 21:07

We replaced mine last weekend and one task I have planned is a write-up on the job. It's a bit tricky but doable in-situ.

The special tools you need is a 3/8" square drive to retract the tensioner and a 6mm ball-ended Allen key to remove the lower spring bolt.

The main thing is to determine the tensioner is actually the problem in your case. Easiest way is to slip the auxillary belt off and to "exercise" the tensioner. If it's action is at all notchy, it needs replacement. If it is smooth then it's OK and your noise is caused by something else. With the auxillary belt off, it should be possible to isolate the guilty party. Top of the list after the tensioner is the aircon compressor.

Here is the retraction tool:

It was made from a socket set short extension with two flats ground to enable a 15mm spanner to fit on the end. It was also necessary to grind about 2mm off its length to give room to get it into the tensioner.

Here is the tool in use. Engine and other impediments removed for clarity.

This thread may also help. A picture near the end shows how the tensioner fails.

I'll get the tensioner replacement guide written ASAP.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 27 Dec 2008, 21:40

What's a typical mileage for tensioner life, across most engines? I'm on just over 70K.

Thanks, Adam.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2008, 21:52

addo wrote:What's a typical mileage for tensioner life, across most engines? I'm on just over 70K.

It's a bit variable Adam. Usually they start to show problems around the 80-100K (miles) mark although it's a good idea to check them regularly. Once the needle rollers start to eat into the sleeve and they go notchy it's time to repalce them. Wear in the sleeve causes a lateral load on the bolt which can, in time, snap. The results of this happening can be quite traumatic.

The same tensioner arrangement is used on the later 1.9TD engines although I'm not sure if it is used on any others.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 27 Dec 2008, 22:00

Thanks Jim,

I'm coming up to the 120K (kilometre) interval rapidly, and a check is scheduled there. Given the car has done a lot of city mileage it may well be time to replace this part... Assuming the 16V petrol engines do have one (GSF don't list it)?

Cheers, Adam.

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2008, 22:11

It's a different setup on the XU10J4 engine Adam. Like this:

It's item 5 in the picture.

In fact similar to the one used on the Activa TCT engine. These seem to live a lot longer but the same checks still apply. If it has a nice smooth spring action and the jockey wheel bearing runs smoothly, no worries.

addo · Unread post by **addo** » 27 Dec 2008, 22:29

Great; I hadn't seen the old style slotted brackets on alternator or pump, so assumed there was a tensioner in there. Just that GSF's non-listing got me puzzled!

Thanks, Adam.

Unread post by **citroenxm** » 27 Dec 2008, 22:35

The XUD auto tensioner with the spring is the most RUBBISH idea I have ever seen. Ive never known of a tensioner FAIL more commonly then those do! Its is useless, and a s@@@@ design and only used for a short while too. The HDi had a re design too thank god!

Rgds
Paul

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2008, 22:59

citroenxm wrote:Its is useless, and a s@@@@ design and only used for a short while too.

And to add insult to injury, they're a bit of a devil to change as well Paul. I fully agree that the design was quite atrocious. They must have given it to an apprentice...

Xaccers · Unread post by **Xaccers** » 28 Dec 2008, 02:18

citrojim wrote:
citroenxm wrote:Its is useless, and a s@@@@ design and only used for a short while too.
And to add insult to injury, they're a bit of a devil to change as well Paul. I fully agree that the design was quite atrocious. They must have given it to an apprentice...

Probably the same bloke who had the heater blower draw power straight off the ignition switch

I hope that's not your lounge carpet you're getting oil on in those photos Jim!

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 28 Dec 2008, 08:31

Xac wrote:
Probably the same bloke who had the heater blower draw power straight off the ignition switch

Could have even been the same bloke that later went on to put steel springs onto the new C5

My Xant has the 2.1 ltr setup, the BoL got me really confused to start off with

I did end up taking out the HP Pump and Alternator and tensioner housing - job to get the allen key bolts off of that, as for it to actually reach far enough in you couldn't use the high torque side so out came the mole grips

When I took it out it the alternator would only just squeeze out if I moved the AirCon Condensor slightly away from its rusty fixings.
When I put it all back together I found that the end of the octopus that suckers onto the HP Pump was letting air in on the bend, so the current quick fix is a tie wrap pulling it closed until I implement a better fix....that was back in the summer

All in all, it would have been better to try and do it in-situ

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 28 Dec 2008, 09:26

Xac wrote:I hope that's not your lounge carpet you're getting oil on in those photos Jim!

No, it's all right Xac, it's my scruffy old conservatory carpet but I must admit it looks good in the photo!!!

red_dwarfers wrote:All in all, it would have been better to try and do it in-situ

It can Kev, with some difficulty and dexterity

I've written a short guide on how to do the job with minimal disassembly.

One could have forgiven the rubbish design if the tensioner was easy to swap

It is, I have to confess, a bit of a devil of a job

Sphinx · Unread post by **Sphinx** » 28 Dec 2008, 20:19

Thanks for all the replies guys, oh and Jim, I won't be taking anything apart until I know exactly what the problem is...I've made this mistake before

Another thing...the steel springs on the new C5 are fine!

I helped do the launch of this car and got to drive nearly every model and I've got to say the steel sprung car drove fine