Synergie non start!!

prosweencarcare · Unread post by **prosweencarcare** » 23 Dec 2008, 19:40

hey guys, ive got a synergie that has just had a new head gasket its a 1997 2.0 model.
it wont start now and im sure its nothing to do with the gasket replacement, the relay box on the inside of the passenger wing is clicking like crazy, im aware its the one controlling fuel ect..........
has anyone experienced this b4? its like its got a bad earth or something? but it buzzes even when you pull the key out!!
very wierd, please advise guys as its confusing me and im usually good with this sort of thing

cheers again Jon

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 23 Dec 2008, 20:10

Is the car relatively new to you?

prosweencarcare · Unread post by **prosweencarcare** » 23 Dec 2008, 23:13

yes she is.

MikeT · Unread post by **MikeT** » 24 Dec 2008, 12:43

It's just a wild guess but I had a very similar problem with my Granada. I'd inadverantly set the alarm off but due to previous bodging this alarm was silent so no sounds other than the ticking was the alarm relay which continued after key out and the non-starting was just the immobiliser doing it's thing. Could this be your issue?

prosweencarcare · Unread post by **prosweencarcare** » 28 Dec 2008, 20:58

its not that issue, the car has no alarm on her, should have an imobaliser working off transponder in key but that wont cause the relay pack to do this, its the one controlling things like fuel pump i am told and is mounted next to the main ecu, its like its got a short to earth somewhere cos with ignition on it just goes on and off rapidly and with ign off it just buzzes faintley like those warning buzzers that tell you that the lights have been left on

red_dwarfers · Unread post by **red_dwarfers** » 28 Dec 2008, 21:37

I had a problem with a neighbours xsara the other day with lots of relays clicking on ignition and things generally going crazy with everything working once the battery was charged, turned out to be the alternator. Doubt its related though....but might spark another idea off from someone

prosweencarcare · Unread post by **prosweencarcare** » 28 Dec 2008, 22:27

hmm, sounds similar! do these things have a common earth strap that corrodes through maybe? i tried it with charged battery and didnt change anything, also tried new relay pack and that didnt change anything either!

prosweencarcare · Unread post by **prosweencarcare** » 02 Jan 2009, 12:55

right, its actually the relay box (like a large double relay) on the inside of the drivers wing in the engine bay next to the ecu, please guys i really need some ideas on this one, someone must have seen this issue before?

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 02 Jan 2009, 13:06

prosweencarcare wrote:right, its actually the relay box (like a large double relay) on the inside of the drivers wing in the engine bay next to the ecu, please guys i really need some ideas on this one, someone must have seen this issue before?

Ahh that's better. Now I can help. That relay is the "Double Injection relay" and supplies power to the engine ECU, Injectors and fuel pump.

Item 1304 in this Typical Wiring Diagram is the Double Injection Relay and you can see how it is powered and operated. Note that the diagram is on a slow server and will take a few moments to download.

It is worth trying a replacement relay.

Item 1203, the Inertia Switch, is worth a check. This is the "tilt" switch that chops the engine and fuel in the event of an accident.

Hope that helps a bit....

prosweencarcare · Unread post by **prosweencarcare** » 02 Jan 2009, 16:36

ok, have tried the new relay with no avail, its still going like crazy, also looked at the inertia switch which seems fine to me, and other ideas? possible earthing issue as like i said it still buzzes faintly with key out of ignition

Unread post by **CitroJim** » 02 Jan 2009, 19:42

If you look at the typical double relay wiring, you'll see the tops of the relay coils are directly supplied with +12V from the battery. The relay coils are earthed by the ECU to operate them.

The fact that the relay buzzes a little even with the ignition off suggests that the ECU has a problem or the wiring to it is suspect. It will be worth disconnecting the battery and then inspecting the ECU connector for corrosion and consequent tracking across the connector pins.

Also, yes, do carefully check the ECU earths as if one or more are dodgy, it could cause this.

If you can tell me exactly waht ECU the car has I can supply an approximately right diagram.

It'll either have a Magnetti Marelli 8P, a Sagen S96 or a Bosch MP5.1.1. they're all similar but the ECU plug pinouts are different.

prosweencarcare · Unread post by **prosweencarcare** » 02 Jan 2009, 22:35

ok ive taken the ecu plug off and checked for corrosion, none presant (its a Magnetti Marelli ecu by the way)
thinking somewhere its got a bad earth or slight feed to the earth has shorted over, if you can give me some checks to do i can hopefully find this out.

bxman · Unread post by **bxman** » 03 Jan 2009, 12:47

Jim , Jon and all
Happy New Year to you and other tolerant or intolerant members of the forum that plow through this particular post.

Two Questions 1.
Is this circuit diagram xu7jp4injcct in the link above the one with the Magnetti Marelli 8P ecu. ?

question 2
Can anyone see problems and perhaps bring to our attention objections to members posting chassis numbers when requesting assistance.

I believe that this would enable others to go to service-citroen and learn the precise specification of the vehicle in question. I find that in so many instances it is unclear initially if problem relates to a vehicle that is either petrol or diesel, abs or not . A/c or not. etc etc.

ps
I am slowly coming to grips with xu10j4mp51ing and xu7jp4sinjcct that you kindly posted up at the same location. for which I am most grateful.

Good luck Jon there are several of us wondering about your problem.
cheers , Patrick

bxman · Unread post by **bxman** » 03 Jan 2009, 12:51

I forgot to say it is may be to obvious but has the valve timing been checked H/gasket change = timing belt been removed
patrick

Unread post by **myglaren** » 03 Jan 2009, 13:53

Can anyone see problems and perhaps bring to our attention objections to members posting chassis numbers when requesting assistance.

I believe that this would enable others to go to service-citroen and learn the precise specification of the vehicle in question.

I can't see why this would be a problem but it may be best to confine it to the members only area.