V6 rattle ... ideas needed ... :(

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 07 Dec 2008, 20:09

hi all.. sorry I have been away from here for a bit... A weekend away in venice in the floods and just now 5 days solid working outdoors on my v6 have taken up a fair bit of time...

60 hours later and now I have removed the flood damaged engine, swapped the auto box onto the new 50K (ebay) engine, and fitted that back in.

I started it tonight for the first time, but it rattles from the top end

- seems to be the rear bank.. although hard to say really, could just be one of the 24 tappets... I felt it got a bit louder with a few mins of running.. definatley doesn't sound like a silky quiet V6

Oil pressure seems ok

All I did to the engine was:

New cambelt (check timing and was fine)
removed inlet manifold and put 3 new plugs in the back bank.
added the autobox
changed the main engine loom with the one from the previous engine.

I remember once fixing a cylinder head on a corsa, it sounded horrible when it first started (one tappet) but after warming up and a few revs it was fine from then on, I put it down to a hydraulic tappet needing some oil pressure..

can anyone give me any thoughts.,, even getting at the rear back is hours of work on a V6 and I have done too many hours already..
I can recheck cam timing without a huge difficulty

thanks
John

Post by **CitroJim** » 07 Dec 2008, 21:20

Good work John, excellent

And not in the best weather either

Did you hear the engine running previously?

If these engines have hydraulic tappets, it could be that. The old Mi16 engine could rattle for ages after having work done after oil drained from the tappets.

Run it for a bit on a fastish idle and see what happens..

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 07 Dec 2008, 22:13

thanks Jim I was hopeful for that

Post by **CitroJim** » 07 Dec 2008, 22:38

Fingers are crossed John...

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 07 Dec 2008, 23:56

Any weird colouring of the oil on the dipstick ?

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 08 Dec 2008, 08:13

will check later anders, but looked gold last night...

if the cam timing was out (I am sure it isn't) it could cause this noise.. although you would think once a valve and a piston have met, they will stop being noisy from then on?

valve sticking possible....

addo · Post by **addo** » 08 Dec 2008, 08:56

Sure it's not an exhaust leak? Once had a truck with "chronically noisy lifters" that turned out to have a loose exhaust flange.

Post by **CitroJim** » 08 Dec 2008, 09:04

addo wrote:Sure it's not an exhaust leak? Once had a truck with "chronically noisy lifters" that turned out to have a loose exhaust flange.

That's an excellent thought Adam

A crack in the exhaust manifold can make a tapping sound too. Used to be a common problem on the 205GTi

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 08 Dec 2008, 10:41

hmm good thinking

I will go and make a video of it later

I may take the cambelt upper covers off just to check all is ok

I would do a compression check on the rear bank but it's manifold off and lots of other stuff too

- it would prove things though...

handyman · Post by **handyman** » 08 Dec 2008, 16:18

Hi John, the tappets on these engines are hydraulic. I assume you've done an oil change and used the recommended grade of oil as hydraulic tappets can be very temperamental. Did you hear the lump running? If not, maybe that was why the engine was removed from the vehicle.

Do you have a stethoscope or a listening stick? Rather than stripping off parts, these would help you track down the noise to the area it was eminating from.

I'll PM you about your redundant lump.

Handyman

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 08 Dec 2008, 19:35

thanks HM -

tonights news...

it runeth! and it seems ok!

the wheels and inner arch covers are off, as is all of the inlet system, and the battery tray, so there is an hours work one evening this week...

but I got it nice and hot, the tapping got worse (only one tappet I guess) and I thought 'sod it', ignored it and made other checks.. the autobox works fine, the seatheaters seemed too (very important those!) the powersteering was ok refilling after lost fluid and a turn lock to lock. the fans kicked in and brought the temp down,
I revved it and revved more and held it, and revved a bit more and the tapping went, never to return

relief at last... 60 hours in 5 days, with no breaks, if I bothered to do half that - in my real job - they would be very happy!

the only slight issues, there is a bit of noise from I think the aux tensioner, no bother, and the matrix is staying frozen (I have bled the system, especially the bleed right by (and above) the matrix... I am wondering if the pipes are swapped over....

Final test will be a roadtest..

happy at last

John

Post by **CitroJim** » 08 Dec 2008, 19:59

John, that's brilliant news

That's made me really happy. Good omens for your Dad's car!

Again, well done on the effort, goodness knows it's not the most straightforward swap to do and in such a short time too!

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 11 Dec 2008, 09:49

I have another problem with this V6

the matrix isnt getting hot.. it seemed to work last week with the old engine.. there is a bleed in one of the 2 pipes to the matrix, this is higher than the matrix and has an impressive geezer of coolant shooting out and no air present...

I am not sure what else to try.. the pipes dont get hot and they seem to be soft i.e. just air in them, despite the coolant present as the nipple..

I have yet to use the header tank to fill the system properly, but cant really see that helping the slightly lower matrix..

I may clamp and remove the pipes and make sure I can get flow through it..

handyman · Post by **handyman** » 12 Dec 2008, 22:12

Hello John, are both the inlet and outlet pipes to the matrix getting hot? I do not think it matters which way round the pipes go as the coolant is coming from the pump and recirculating into the head chambers. Are you getting any funny readings on the temperature gauge, like running slightly hot? You may have an airlock.

The other possibility is the air valve controlling the cabin temperature. I cannot remember if this is a simple cable controlled flap or a stepper motor controlled flap.

Lastly, can you touch the bottom of the matrix inside the cabin? I know it is possible on a Xantia and if it is hot, you know the problem is with the cabin heater system.

Be assured, none of it is insurmountable!

Handyman

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 13 Dec 2008, 01:25

Handyman thanks

i get easily confused these days with forums!

the matrix was fixed last night but I have no idea which forum i mentioned it on!

A header tank was duly rigged, and the v6 has two bleeds around the thermostat.. between the three the matrix now works fine

I got insurance today and drove the car 5 miles along lanes.. hanging on for dear life as there are no hydraulics

it was fine , warm

but the gearbox is being silly ! shortshifting and even when sport mode selected, changing up at only 4K .. I have a few ideas on how to train the box, (I remember ny V6 xantia and how it behaved)

will report back

J