Citroen Xantia Suspension Diagnosis

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k2col
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Citroen Xantia Suspension Diagnosis

Post by k2col »

Hi Guys,

Before I get flamed for yet another Xantia suspension question, let me say that I've read a lot of posts here and elsewhere and think I've got a good handle on my problem, but wanted to check my diagnosis before I start spending money....

The main symptom is that the front of the car can be very bouncy. Around town it's fine, but hit a bump on the motorway and it bounces along the road for several seconds afterwards. I even managed to bounce the front wheels off the ground, that's how bad it is!

With the car parked, if I push the rear corners of the car the suspension moves a good few inches down, feels very soft compared to other cars I've owned. The front however, barely moves an inch, it's much, much harder than the rear.

I've done some 'citrobics' and it did seem to help for a day or two, but it wasn't a miracle cure sadly.

I've checked the LHD fluid levels with the car on highest setting with the engine running. It seems to have been slightly overfilled and I intend to rectify this but don't think that could cause these problems, right?

So my question is what to do? Should the front of the car be soft like the back end, or does it sound like the soft backend (ooer) the cause of these problems?

Finally, when braking hard, there is a feeling of the brakes coming on and off, a bit like an ABS system. Could that be related or is that just a quirk of the Xantia power-assisted brakes?

Many thanks
addo
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Post by addo »

First question: What year and model spec is the car? :lol: It may have ABS!

Second comment... Try the push test with your car's engine running - parked is much less an indicator of health.

Third - if in any doubt as to its health, test or replace the accumulator sphere.

And while you're at it, check your strut tops, as mentioned and discussed in the stickied thread atop this forum.

Regards, Adam.
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Post by pete_wood_uk »

The front should not feel as soft as the back, but it should move. Which model is this (he says, fishing for Hydractive / non-hydractive info)? Sound sinitially as if your front spheres are shot, which is a very easy and cheap fix.

Cheers
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Post by MikeT »

Hi k2col,

Good on you for searching for the answers first before posting but I doubt anyone would flame you for asking xantia related question if you hadn't - that's the essence of this forum and totally it's against the intentions of it's founder, Alan S (RIP) not to be helpful and friendly - there are many knowledgable people on here that will all too gladly help. Sadly, I'm not experienced enough to fully answers your query but I do recognise the symptoms you describe. My MK1 would wallow and undulate like a boat on the sea though I don't think it's been so bad as to lift off. I sold the car before I fixed that issue so don't know the cure I'm afraid.

As far as the brakes go, would you say it is similar to ABS operating or more like they come and go as if you cannot get a fixed braking pressure? The latter is a common fault and the usual advice is to bleed them if you're up to the task.

I don't mean to be pedantic but it's important you're clear that the suspension uses LHM hydraulic fluid, though I suspect you've made a typo?

As addo says, the accumulator sphere may need replacing and one indication of this is the ticking noise you may here. If they're very frequent, that's a sign that's it's past it's best. Addtionally, you might want to clean the LHM tank filters while you're at it.

If you need specific and detailed instruction on any DIY procedure, just ask.
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Post by k2col »

thanks for the initial responses guys. Here is the extra info and some questions:

- The car is an '97 1.9Tdi SX, so that's non hydroactive.

- Not sure if it has ABS but the pulsing sensation under hard braking happens on good road surfaces long before I'd expect the car to start skidding.

- I tried the push test with the engine running. Same result - front travel almost non-existent, lots of rear travel.

- I note that there is a lot more space under the front wheel arches (enough to get a fist sideways between the top of the arch and the tyre) compared to the rear (top of the tyre lines up with the arch more or less)

- Where is the accumulator sphere, what does it do and how can I test it?

Thanks in advance,
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Post by MikeT »

If it's ABS there will be a dash light (not necessarily working) and each wheel will have a castellated rotor attached to the inside of each wheel hub as well as wiring for the sensors and an ABS ECU fitted somewhere between the LHM tank and the main fuse/relay box.

The accumulator sphere lives centrally at the front of the engine, around the bottom and behind (looking from front of the car) the radiator. It's job is to keep a reserve of pressure in case of pump failure or other loss so you can, in an emergency, brake at least once and steer to safety, therefore it's important this sphere is in good condition. One simple test is to time the interval between the clicks you hear.

If the front (or rear) of the car appears to be riding too high when the suspension is set to normal then it may be a simple case of the plastic link popping off it's balljoint. WARNING, DO NOT VENTURE UNDER THESE CARS WITHOUT FULLY SUPPORTING THE CHASSIS ON AXLE STANDS OR SIMILAR SECURE SUPPORTS. Look for the front roll-bar, it has a short arm clamped around it with a balljoint end onto which a small white plastic arm should be clipped onto. They wear over time and cost about £1.20 new so an easy fix.
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Post by pete_wood_uk »

Aha. If it's riding high at the front compared to other Xantias, then the front height corrector might have become detached. Do a search for it on this forum (sometimes abbriviated to HC) and you'll find it.

Ah, just seen Mike's beaten me to it. Oh well, I've typed it, I'll post it.

Cheers
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Post by MikeT »

Confirmation is always welcome Pete :!:
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Post by pete_wood_uk »

If it's riding high at the front then that might well cause the bouncy castle effect. Get that sorted and see if things improve.

As Mike also said, time the ticks on the accumulator. With the car sat idling, you ought to be hearing the accumulator valve tick on/off from time to time. 30s-60s between ticks is good, if it's down to a few secs then not so good. If you're new to Cits and not quite sure what to listen for, then, once it's all idling comfortably, sit on the car. The suspension should correct the height and, while it does so, you should hear psssst-click from under the bonnet as the accumulator recharges. That's the bunny.

As for the pulsing under braking, is it a warped-disc sort of pulsing or just a springy I'm-vaguely-not-quite-in-control sort of feeling? Or a hard fast rattling? Warped discs are what they are, hard fast rattles like a machine gun can be the ABS going off, and as for the unsatisfactory vagueness, well, they all do that guv, some people like it, search on here for "silly spring" for a 5-minute fix if you really don't like it. But you might find that if you sort the suspension out so that it's suspending properly, some of the other issues go away.

Please can I just echo Mike's warning about never ever ever climbing underneath a hydraulic citroen....?

Cheers
Pete
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Post by Old-Guy »

Suspension heights sound about right. Easy to check this when doing Citarobics - the front suspension should rise by a couple of inches from Normal to High and then a little bit further to Service High (up against the bump stops).

It sounds as though your front spheres are 'blown'. The 4 corner spheres act as springs with the spring medium being nitrogen gas under pressure. Each sphere is divided in two by a rubber diaphragm that keeps the Nitrogen (in the 'blind' half of the sphere) separate from the hydraulic fluid. The fluid (being incompressible) forms a variable length link between the 'spring' and the wheel. When the diaphragm develops a leak, the gas mixes with the hydraulic fluid. Eventually the sphere fills up with fizzy LHM!

If your accumulator sphere (low down on the front of the engine) fails the tick rate test, the suspension will still work properly when the engine is running.

Don't drive around on blown spheres - you'll quickly damage the suspension, especially the strut tops. :cry: :cry: :cry:

For some reason, rear spheres usually go before front ones, so I'd guess the rear spheres on your car have been changed at some time, but not the fronts.

Read CitroJim's sticky on how to change spheres. Changing the fronts couldn't be easier, BUT as they are blown, they WILL spray LHM everywhere even when you have properly depressurised the system. Pack load of rag around each one before you unscrew it and have a suitable container to dump them in (connection down) to drain.

Best of luck

Guy
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Post by k2col »

thanks guys, this has been very educational and I really appreciate your help!

Sounds like I need to have a little look under the car (secured on axle stands of course) to check the height adjustors, and if they're ok, then change the front spheres.

To be honest, I was tempted to ignore the bounciness, what with Christmas coming up and my finances not looking so hot, but I now realise how dumb that would be, the last thing I need is the suspension breaking through the strut tops!

Fingers crossed a couple of front spheres should do the trick. I'll let you know how I get on, cheers.


EDIT> the pulsing under breaking, is slow fading in and out, each fade-in and fade-out takes a second or so. So I don't think its warped discs..
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Post by MikeT »

Before you get underneath (with the car well supported of course) arm yourself with a strong light, WD40 or other cleaning/penetrating fluid and a spray lubricant. Even if it all seems good it's a good idea to pentrate, clean and then lubricate the height corrector mechanisms.
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Post by k2col »

cheers Mike, am I right in thinking I can simply raise the car to it's maximum level, slide the axel stands underneath as high as they'll go and then... hmmm.... do I lower the suspension so that the stands take the strain, or not worry as long as the stands are in place?
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Post by k2col »

Found a DIY spheres page here, which has some useful pictures

http://www.shanescitshed.com/xantia/xantiaspheres.htm
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Post by Old-Guy »

PLEASE lower the car onto the axle stands to make sure that the car is firmly supported by something other than its hydraulics. Otherwise, if the car did drop suddenly (as a result of you working on the height control mechanism) the axle stands might not catch the car before you did!
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