ZX 1.4 camshaft/timing lost

UserError · Post by **UserError** » 23 Oct 2008, 22:46

Hi,
Just been reading MikeT's post about setting the timing - this appears to relate to the XUD - does it apply broadly to the TU(less IP timing etc)?

If I understand correctly, if I line the camshaft sprocket with the cyl head hole, and the flywheel hole (are there more than one on the 1.4 TU?) I should be OK?

Can it be 180° out? - I thought it was set up OK, but appear not to be as it came to a stop (gently but firmly) when turning it over with a spanner. I've now taken the plugs out to make turning it easier but hunger, bad light and shortness of patience ended the days play.

Also, just to check - am I correct in thinking that the belt/sprockets rotate clockwise when looking at them, so the belt travels downwards on the straight/front run from the cam sprocket to the crank sprocket?

Cheers,
Jonathan

TBONE · Post by **TBONE** » 24 Oct 2008, 08:29

mikeTs is a diesel but only difference is locking the diesel pump in your case you only need to lock the cam and flywheel so no you cant get it 180degrees out unless your not locking the cam in the right hole,

UserError · Post by **UserError** » 24 Oct 2008, 08:41

Cheers TBone.
....out into the rain then go get it sorted.
Jonathan

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 24 Oct 2008, 08:41

there is only one locking hole in the cam sprocket, not sure if there is more than one in flywheel, but if it was 180° out the engine would not run at all,

and yes the cam belt dose rotate clockwise when running,

also when setting up to check/lock the timming you must only rotate in the normal running direction, if you go past the timming point you can turn back as long as you go back past the timming point, then bring it up clockwise last before locking off

regards malcolm

Post by **CitroJim** » 24 Oct 2008, 09:47

citronut wrote:there is only one locking hole in the cam sprocket, not sure if there is more than one in flywheel, but if it was 180° out the engine would not run at all,

The last TU I did a cambelt on, it had FOUR holes in the flywheel, 90 degrees apart

The owner thought he'd "help" me by whipping off the old belt and lost timing in the process

I had to time it from scratch...

TBONE · Post by **TBONE** » 24 Oct 2008, 09:58

and that's where people go wrong by removing the belt before setting things up then you have to remove the crank pulley to line the bottom end up to TDC

UserError · Post by **UserError** » 24 Oct 2008, 12:31

TBONE wrote:and that's where people go wrong by removing the belt before setting things up then you have to remove the crank pulley to line the bottom end up to TDC

I did this to check whether the tensioner was OK or whether I'd need to add one to my GSF order. Put the locking bolts in an'all, but engine was moved from here to there due to lack of space so I'm guessing one fell out. Or maybe fell back in when hand-cranking the engine. Ho hum. Haven't done a timing belt for a few years so a bit rusty.

Cheers for the nuggets of info.
Jonathan

TBONE · Post by **TBONE** » 24 Oct 2008, 12:37

I know what you mean and the space is the problem especially if you have big hands

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 24 Oct 2008, 13:57

just hope you aint bent any valves in turnning one or the other sprockets to much then

regards malcolm

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 24 Oct 2008, 20:59

If you've lost the timing because the belt has been removed & the flywheel has more than 1 locating hole in it, just remove the spark plug from #1 cylinder (Flywheel end of the engine I believe) & carefully insert a long screwdriver through the hole until it touches the top of the piston....now slowly & carefully turn the engine over...the screwdriver will show when the piston is at the top of its stroke....now by turning the engine back & forth a little you will find the correct flywheel hole for the pin to go in to.

As you are doing the above you may find that the engine will stop & not turn any further....at this point you will have to rotate the camshaft to move the valves...sometimes you may have to turn the engine backwards a little to allow the camshaft to turn....just go slowly & carefully & feel your way until #1 piston is at TDC (Top Dead Center).

Now turn the camshaft until the timing pin can be inserted...you may have to turn the engine backwards a little to drop the pistons a little to allow the camshaft to open the valves without them contacting the pistons....don't forget to remove the flywheel pin if you have to do this.

Good luck.

UserError · Post by **UserError** » 04 Nov 2008, 11:05

uncle buck wrote:....carefully insert a long screwdriver through the hole until it touches the top of the piston....now slowly & carefully turn the engine over...the screwdriver will show when the piston is at the top of its stroke....now by turning the engine back & forth a little you will find the correct flywheel hole for the pin to go in to.

Half term is over, so back to the fun

Cheers for this Uncle Buck - in a 4 stroke, does the piston not reach TDC twice - on compression & exhaust strokes? If so, without taking the rocker cover off, is there an external sign that the engine is on compression, or I'll end up 180° out? Is this a trial & error thing?

Presumably if it's 180° out, the valves are safe, and the risk is @ 90° out?
The engine is huffing & farting but not quite firing (spark @ all plugs), but definitely no valve contact.

No guarantee the replacement engine isn't shagged though, but I'll rule this out for now....
Cheers
Jonathan

TBONE · Post by **TBONE** » 04 Nov 2008, 12:19

this isn't a difficult one, if the pin is in the fly wheel regardless of how many holes there are ( piston number 1 will be at TDC ) so if the piston is any where else then the pin is in the wrong hole on the flywheel, check you have the firing order on the plug leads correct 1-3-4-2 ( 1 being near the tranny ) distributor rotates anticlockwise and this is how they are marked up
4---3
--2---1

spark plugs cylinder head 4-3-2-1-tranny

I hope that helps

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 04 Nov 2008, 22:35

UserError wrote:....in a 4 stroke, does the piston not reach TDC twice - on compression & exhaust strokes? If so, without taking the rocker cover off, is there an external sign that the engine is on compression, or I'll end up 180° out? Is this a trial & error thing?....

Yes it does reach TDC twice....but the pin will only go into the flywheel in one of the TDC positions.....use the screwdriver method along with the pin into the flywheel & it will be correct....then you know the bottom end is timed up & all you have to do is set the camshaft with the pin & bingo the timing will be correct.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 05 Nov 2008, 09:21

as uncle buck says with No.1 piston at the top of its stroke and both the flywheel and cam sprocket peged off, then you know the cam timming is correct,

as it is in reality the cam which governs the inlet and exhaust strokes, as the cam rotates once for every two full realousionons of the cranck

so if they are both peged corectly i would sudgest you have an ignition or induction fault

regards malcolm

UserError · Post by **UserError** » 14 Nov 2008, 22:06

Went through the procedures that you all suggested & after much messing around with HT leads, got the thing running.

The problem turned out to be the order of the HT leads on the box (presumably part of the distributor assembly) at the transmission end of the cylinder head.

I arranged them
4---3
2---1
but that didn't work.
I tried another variation
4---1
3---1
gleaned from elsewhere, but after many permutations,
Finally, I randomly swapped 2 & 3 & it fired up on
4---1
2---3
Sounds reasonable runnning, I think, given all that it's been through.
Many thanks to everyone who took the time to offer advice, I appreciate it and am now heartily relieved that I have not been wasting my time on a dud engine!
Nearly back on the road - just a few piddly things, oh and the dashboard bulbs to do now....
Cheers
Jonathan

French Car Forum

ZX 1.4 camshaft/timing lost

ZX 1.4 camshaft/timing lost

ZX timing

ZX 1.4 i timing/ignition